Does anyone know whether trackpoints are proprietary tech? Dell and HP have both produced versions of them, but as far as I know IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads are the only laptops to consistently use them.
I think the market for them isn’t huge, but this forum thread demonstrates there is a market; so do numerous personal projects that add trackpoints to custom keyboards. But no one to my knowledge makes aftermarket trackpoints, and the custom jobbies all seem to start with “remove a trackpoint from a Thinkpad keyboard”. So does Lenovo have an exclusive lock on the tech that makes their trackpoints the reference implementation?
Because Wikipedia doesn’t provide the patent numbers or whether they’re still in force. I know IBM developed the tech; I just don’t know if Lenovo still has a lock on it.
Patent US6115030A, granted in 1997, expired five years ago. Patent US6509890B1 was granted in 1998 and expired in 2018. Unless there are later ones I didn’t turn up (quite possible), this suggests Lenovo no longer has exclusivity on the technology and other manufacturers could use it.
Does anyone know otherwise? Have all related patents lapsed, or are there some still keeping Lenovo’s version proprietary?
The Synaptics TouchStyk is the same product that is used for the pointing sticks on laptops made by HP, and probably other manufacturers. The TrackPoint remains the gold standard because it is always accompanied by three physical buttons.
I wonder if it would be possible for Framework to source TouchStyks in a smaller order to offer a trackpoint-equipped keyboard option in the future. If the current laptop base is too thin, a thicker base option could accommodate both a trackpoint-equipped keyboard and a larger battery, killing two birds with one stone.
You would expect to be able to find said “TouchStyk” (as a part) on sites like Mouser (or Farnell)
But seemingly no.
Synaptics is also into the marketing mess since clicking on their site lead you to a handout
And there is no, like, part number or something to reference to.
I use a HP 840 G5 at work with a track point and it doesn’t seem thick (the laptop is somewhat similar to the Framework), so I am guessing it could be possible? Not sure about the connections or drivers for the different keyboard though (the HP has an additional ribbon cable I think).
The TrackPoint TouchStyk (from reading related documents) operates via 4 pressure sensors to keep actuation distance at a minimum. Thus the thickness (of the module) is effectively that of a PCB.
The only problem as I mentioned is the need of multiple palmrests (and keycap) designs and the lack of available parts for purchase. It’s likely that since it uses pressure sensors it will not come as a fully assembled module and instead the manufacturer will be responsible for sourcing the sensors (and molding of the stick), etc.
It’s actually less than that. TouchStyk’s aren’t usually mounted on a PCB; instead they’re attached to a steel(?) mounting plate, with a very fine ribbon cable to take the inputs from the sensor to a circuit located elsewhere. The sensor itself is thicker, but it’s completely within the circumference of the nubbin so occupies no space below the mounting plate.
I recently added a TouchStyk to a split ortholinear keyboard: the entire assembly is less than 8 mm thick, and only ~0.6 mm is below the keyboard mounting plate.
In case someone is counting, please add my vote for a trackpoint/touchstyk as an option for the Framework laptop. It’s a productivity lifesaver for me, and helps prevent repetitive stress injuries. It’s one of my “have to have” features on a laptop - I won’t buy a laptop that doesn’t have it. Appreciate this forum!
I bought a used Lenovo USB keyboard from eBay and removed the component and control board. It’s presently a proof of concept; I modeled and printed a bracket to attach it to one of the keyboard halves, and taped the control board to the bottom of the keyboard. If I continue using it - I think I shall - I’ll figure out an integrated controller for both the keyboard and TrackPoint.
The reason I’m still buying ThinkPads is the trackpoint. With the trackpoint I never have to leave the home row. The trackpoint is simply the best pointing device for anyone who needs both hands on the keyboard. As a software developer I depend on a trackpoint. I can’t buy a laptop that has no trackpoint. If there is no trackpoint I constantly have to move my hand back and forth between keyboard and touchpad, that’s just silly. Been there…
Please add a trackpoint option I would love to jump ship… but as is I can’t.
Not sure where did they get this specific trackball. Likely leftover stock, but could be new Shenzhen clone.
I 3D printed that white “brace” plastic piece.
It’s a USB trackpoint. Just the little nubbin on a PCB that’s then adapted to use USB to connect to a computer. Paired with this shim brewed up by another community member that exposes a USB 2.0 port by nixing the fingerprint sensor:
I think it’s possible to actually accomplish a Trackpointed Framework. It’d still require modifying the Input Cover itself (namely… the aluminum and the Keyboard are a little in the way so a hole is in order) but it seems accomplish-able.
Those USB trackpoints are also all over Aliexpress for ~$15 USD but I found it on Amazon first
I found more stuff that might be useful to someone looking into making a TrackPoint Input Cover; namely, someone’s old repository that adapted a Lenovo T60 Thinkpad Keyboard to USB, via this Hackaday article from 2014. The version in question with open source firmware does use an Arduino Micro, although his github does contain the documentation for some later revisions, as well as his dormant Tindie store having downloadable firmware for his designs. In theory it should be possible to root around in his work and sideways-reverse-engineer enough to figure it out. I doubt he’ll notice.
There’s also this other GitHub repo that seems to contain a bunch of other projects relating to reusing Thinkpads as USB keyboards but I’ll be honest I haven’t looked around as hard in it.
The board from Amazon linked is clearly not suitable.
You can see that it’s a combination of a trackpoint and an USB carrier board which probably uses something similar to the Arduino based projects you link to make the trackpoint available over USB.
However, the carrier board increases size and thickness of the trackpoint making it less likely to fit anywhere, especially the Framework notebook case. At the same time it places the buttons in a very awkward way.
It would make much more sense to source a trackpoint without a carrier board.
I don’t necessarily deny this but I haven’t found anything like that. If you want to try your hand at google-fu you’re more than welcome to. As far as I can find scouring dead GitHub repositories and obscure Aliexpress listings, there may be a need to model a custom Input Cover to counteract the thickness issue of adding the trackpoint in, or simply shim the Input Connector to USB and then the USB to the Lenovo keyboard and attach that to a completely custom laptop housing.
I would love to jump ship… but as is I can’t.
