Review of hardware durability and repair (1.5 years)

[TJ1]

The laptop of Theseus has a 2.75 year update.

• 2021-08 - original laptop batch 2
• 2023-02 - replaced touchpad due to crack from drop
• 2023-02, 2023-09, 2023-10 - replaced power cable. The power cables really suck, so I bought a braided one that has broken yet.
• 2023-05 - replaced ram. The original 16GB stick had some bad bits.
• 2023-09 - replaced keyboard. The alt key stopped working and it was pretty worn.
• 2024-03 - replaced bezel
• 2024-03 - upgraded to matte screen

I guess the only original parts left are the case, the motherboard, battery, and the fingerprint reader.

There were tons of keyboard marks on the original screen. It didn’t need to be replaced as it was still functioning just fine. But the bezel, well, I’m really not sure what is up with the bezel. It seems to be peeling in very odd ways.

As a comparison, my 2013 or 2014 macbook air which had a much more rigid top cover also had keyboard marks. I think it is probably unavoidable given the way it’s been used and packed. I’ve bought a microfiber cloth to put between the keyboard and screen and hopefully that will help.

This laptop has been likely dropped between 15-30 times by now. I think I managed to drop it three times in an hour last week while it was being balanced on a speaker with a short ethernet cord while trying to fix a router. In short, I’m not really worried about dropping it.

Shipping
I placed the order, was thinking of adding some more stuff, but they ended up putting it in for shipping within 3 hours of business opening (ordered on Friday night, and it was shipped noon on Monday).

I wasn’t going to pay for extra shipping, so I guess Framework will have to wait to get more money from me. @TheTwistgibber I do admire the quick shipping time, but maybe just a few hours slower next time.

Total cost of ownership (TCO)

Years	Laptop	TCO / year	Notes
2011-2016	Macbook Air	$460	Sold the first one after two years for $500 to buy the second one. Unfortunately, the last Macbook Air screen broke on a 3-foot drop and would cost $500+ to repair. So no more Macbook Air.
2016-2021	Used Thinkpad X200s and X230	$300	2/4 X230’s still work and 2/3 X200 still work
08-2021 to 04-2024	Framework 13 (with screen upgrade)	$513	1878 Cdn → $1410 USD @ 1.33 exchange
08-2021 to 04-2024	Framework 13 (only repairs)	$420	1538 Cdn → $1155 USD @ 1.33 exchange

Depending on how you look at it, the Framework 13 is a year or so away to having same longterm TCO of a used X230 after being repaired and upgraded, while being much, much nicer hardware. Although, some of the parts seem flimsy (power cord, bezel, keyboard), I doubt another modern laptop would have lasted 6-18 months.

Crossing fingers till the next update.

[2disbetter]

Dude, I’m glad you are using the heck out of your Framework, but I really have to agree with this:

@Davvo

That’s a battered laptop!

Do you know how much easier it would be for you to maintain a laptop if you treated it better? All this effort could be GREATLY minimized if you were just a little gentler with the thing. I mean, when I saw how your power cables frayed the way they did, I’m just thinking, how on earth did that happen? Are you playing tug of war with them or something?

I think as a case study, the laptop has fared really well given the harsh treatment it has apparently endured so far. Thank you for sharing!

Don’t mind me either, while there are certainly things you shouldn’t do with a laptop, there is no real right or wrong way to use one.

[Adrian_Joachim]

Jesus, thanks for stress testing the thing I guess.

[TJ1]

@2disbetter

Do you know how much easier it would be for you to maintain a laptop if you treated it better? All this effort could be GREATLY minimized if you were just a little gentler with the thing.

I should probably make a blog post about this, it really is a case study. Anyway, the amusing thing is that I’m not really being harsh with it…I’m just not especially dainty either. Here are some photos to compare of other laptops that I’ve used for 2+ years.

2014 Macbook Air

• Keyboard - As you can see the paint is worn straight off the mac keyboard after 2-3 years, but the Framework keyboard is completely wrecked after 6-9 months. I do think that the Framework keyboard was a one-off bad paint job though.

• Screen - The Air top cover is much more solid, but still had small keyboard marks which are tough to see. The spacebar did make a mark that is visible but not easily noticeable. The Framework lid on earlier batches was…bendy to say the least and the screen was definitely marked up.

• The microphone quit working also which was a common problem with that model.

• The left usb port is bent and unusable.

Thinkpad X230

The only damage the X230 sustained during its use is that the Thinkpad Logo somehow fell off the keyboard rest. I have an external thinkpad keyboard that is also immaculate. The thinkpad lids have no give to them at all, so the screen has zero marks.

Framework part durability

The keycaps on the replacement keyboard haven’t developed any issues yet.

The top cover got reinforced a year later, etc. so it definitely needed an upgrade.

But let’s be honest, Framework 13 is certainly is not a tank like the X230.

It is very easily and cheaply repairable though and much nicer hardware.

@2disbetter

I mean, when I saw how your power cables frayed the way they did, I’m just thinking, how on earth did that happen? Are you playing tug of war with them or something?

Never had an issue with Thinkpad charging cables either…nor magsafe cables. When I’m out in very rural areas in villages, there are definitely no desks or sometimes even chairs. So you either work cross-legged or lying down. The framework cable simply could not sustain literally adjusting my position like 3-4 times / day which hardly even twisted the cable. However, it was 40 degrees with no AC for about two months, so I’m very happy at how the laptop fared.

So other than the drops and getting a padded bag, I’m really not sure how to be gentler.

I mean, do you wrap the laptop in a blanket and kiss it good night?

So in my opinion:

• Durability: Thinkpad > Air > Framework
• Repairability: Framework > Thinkpad > Air

And even if the parts wear out a bit fast than the Thinkpad, I’d rather have the Framework because of the nicer screen, faster cpu, and better battery life.

@2disbetter

I think as a case study, the laptop has fared really well given the harsh treatment it has apparently endured so far. Thank you for sharing!

@Adrian_Joachim

Jesus, thanks for stress testing the thing I guess.

It has survived 3-years of 10+ hour daily use, has spent 500+ days away from home, been dropped 15+ times, and operated in 40 C weather with no AC for weeks at a time.

So if it works for me, it will definitely be fine for everyone else.

[Adrian_Joachim]

@TJ1

Anyway, the amusing thing is that I’m not really being harsh with it…I’m just not especially dainty either.

We may have somewhat different definitions to what harsh means in this context but I do know a few powple with similar definitons XD.

@TJ1

The left usb port is bent and unusable.

On that part the frameworks has a major upside, replaceable ports that take the abuse so the mainboard doesn’t.

@TJ1

The only damage the X230 sustained during its use is that the Thinkpad Logo somehow fell off the keyboard rest.

The x230 truly was a tank, I do wish the framework was that form factor with modern performance but the market just wants thin and light today.

@TJ1

It has survived 3-years of 10+ hour daily use, has spent 500+ days away from home, been dropped 15+ times, and operated in 40 C weather with no AC for weeks at a time.

My point about stress testing stands.

Now if only they finally released the case cad so someone can design a beefed up case for it XD

[2disbetter]

@TJ1

So other than the drops and getting a padded bag, I’m really not sure how to be gentler.

I mean, do you wrap the laptop in a blanket and kiss it good night?

I think that your environment is probably more to blame here than the way you are using it, although I will add that I think I have dropped ALL of my laptops over the years less times than you’ve dropped just this one.

I just try to take care of my laptops, but I’m not ridiculous about it. I mainly just don’t drop them and don’t put them in harsh situations. That is really it. I guess that is my secret.

[Alan_Pearce]

@Adrian_Joachim

The x230 truly was a tank, I do wish the framework was that form factor with modern performance but the market just wants thin and light today.

@Adrian_Joachim

Now if only they finally released the case cad so someone can design a beefed up case for it XD

Maybe this should be FWs next project, a ruggedised laptop. Use proper double injection keycaps, latching lid, maybe even protective covers over the USB connections. They may find the Armed Forces come calling … there goes the first 25 batches before anyone else gets a look in …

[Adrian_Joachim]

@Alan_Pearce

Maybe this should be FWs next project, a ruggedised laptop.

Just release the case cad and let the community make it.

@Alan_Pearce

Use proper double injection keycaps

Pretty sure they already are, but not having to be backlit makes durability a lot easier there.

@Alan_Pearce

They may find the Armed Forces come calling

Not enough proprietary special sauce XD

[Richard_Tango-Lowy]

I thought I was bad. My laptop gets lugged through rainforests, banged up in cities, dropped, and abused, but you definitely beat up your laptop.

I started with a FW 11th gen batch 5. Have since done the following:

• Replaced defective hinges (under warranty)
• Replaced the microphone/camera unit (microphone stopped working)
• Replaced the power button. (That one was on me. I messed up the wire while replacing the hinges)
• Upgraded to the CNC cover
• Upgraded to AMD 7840 (turned the 11th gen into a standalone machine with the CoolerMaster case).

Overall, I’m pretty much in line with @TJ1. My Thinkpad X1 Carbons have been much more durable. But the ability to upgrade and evolve the FW is hard to beat: with the AMD upgrade/CoolerMaster, my one FW has now replaced two X1 Carbons.

And the FW has been far more robust than my XPS13s.

[TJ1]

@Richard_Tango-Lowy

I thought I was bad. My laptop gets lugged through rainforests, banged up in cities, dropped, and abused, but you definitely beat up your laptop.

Ha, I thought you had done more to yours than I did! Hmmm…since you upgraded to the CNC cover, I probably should do that, too.

@Alan_Pearce

@Adrian_Joachim

The x230 truly was a tank, I do wish the framework was that form factor with modern performance but the market just wants thin and light today.

@Adrian_Joachim

Now if only they finally released the case cad so someone can design a beefed up case for it XD

Maybe this should be FWs next project, a ruggedised laptop. Use proper double injection keycaps, latching lid, maybe even protective covers over the USB connections. They may find the Armed Forces come calling … there goes the first 25 batches before anyone else gets a look in …

I don’t think it would really take more than a couple of mm and some engineering around the corner areas to make it much closer to indestructible. It would also allow more battery life and even the thinkpad keyboard that half the lurkers have been waiting for.

@Adrian_Joachim

Pretty sure they already are, but not having to be backlit makes durability a lot easier there.

Yes, perhaps the backlighting is the problem that causes the weardown. If this one wears out, then the next replacement I’ll get blank ansi. So this test will take about 5 more years…

[Richard_Tango-Lowy]

@TJ1

I don’t think it would really take more than a couple of mm and some engineering around the corner areas to make it much closer to indestructible.

I agree. The corners tend to take brunt of the (numerous) falls. Mine are still in good shape, but I put that down to luck more than anything else.

[Richard_Tango-Lowy]

@Adrian_Joachim

We may have somewhat different definitions to what harsh means in this context

My definition is “droppage is a regular part of the life of my electronics. That isn’t harsh.” Accidentally sitting or stepping on it might be a bit over the top.

Mine’s definitely been banged up and rained on. My laptop bag isn’t cushioned–I have a cushioned sleeve, but then I have to worry about getting it in our out of the sleeve, and I’m basically lazy about that sort of activity.

Crumbs and ingredients on the keyboard are a thing. I do chocolate for a living, so that’s just part of the game. I usually flip the laptop over and gently tap it a few times, but occasionally the compressed air comes into play.

My FW is in surprisingly good condition. Keyboard is completely readable and everything’s working properly. I have Dbrand skins on to protect the beast–especially the input cover. You wouldn’t be able to guess the amount of abuse it takes by looking at it.

[Alan_Pearce]

@Richard_Tango-Lowy

You wouldn’t be able to guess the amount of abuse it takes by looking at it.

You abuse it by looking at it ???

[Ulmondil]

@TJ1

Total cost of ownership (TCO)

Are those costs just the sum of costs or have you applied some kind of discount rate (e.g. inflation or interest rates)?

How is the battery doing after almost 3 years?

[TJ1]

@Ulmondil

Are those costs just the sum of costs or have you applied some kind of discount rate (e.g. inflation or interest rates)?

Sum of costs with no adjustments.

@Ulmondil

How is the battery doing after almost 3 years?

From upowerd --dump, it looks like 83%. I’m surprised the cycle count is so low. I did reset the motherboard roughly a year ago, so the count might be double? Or perhaps it only counts full discharges.

    energy-full:         45.4916 Wh
    energy-full-design:  55.0088 Wh
    energy-rate:         8.8704 W
    voltage:             16.102 V
    charge-cycles:       108

Edit: Just recently changed the firmware to limit the charging to 85%. Not sure if that really makes a difference as the battery is already around 80%.

[Richard_Tango-Lowy]

You’d best believe it.

[GhostLegion]

I can only say….yikes

[Adrian_Joachim]

@TJ1

From upowerd --dump, it looks like 83%. I’m surprised the cycle count is so low. I did reset the motherboard roughly a year ago, so the count might be double? Or perhaps it only counts full discharges.

If it’s only done so few cycles it sounds like it’s used mostly plugged in. If it hasn’t seen a full discharge-charge cycle, it’s more of a wild guess at the capacity than what it actually is.

[Richard_Tango-Lowy]

My FW’s currently spending the day under a tornado warning in the Florida panhandle. I thought it needed a little breeze and humidity to help clean the keyboard.

[TJ1]

Now have 32GB RAM. Thought this should be documented in this thread because Framework made a one-time exception to replace the original 16GB module.

In June 2023, I was having some issues looked like a disk / memory issue, so I bought another disk and ram. Turns out it was fixed by a motherboard reset, but the RAM did turn out to be bad, so I replaced it.

And last month, I finally initiated an RMA with Crucial. Only problem was that I needed an invoice which shows the I purchased the RAM. The original invoice doesn’t show that it is Crucial RAM, so I had to contact support to get an invoice I could use with Crucial.

Seems like someone had done it before:

RMA process broken for RAM

Hi! I bought a DIY 12th gen that I received recently, and have been having issues with the support provided by Framework regarding the RAM. I bought a 32 Gb kit with my order, and received Crucial RAM. Unfortunately, one of the stick is really bad, memtest is not even able to complete. I contacted support for an RMA, and they redirected me to Crucial’s website for the returns. I filled out the form online and the next business day I received an email from Crucial asking (understandably) for a p…

For some reason, over a series of emails spanning a week or more, I got back various responses, none of which addressed the problem at hand. I even included the forum link above. Perhaps my request was too confusing, but the first two responses were:

• how to download the invoice
• how to apply for an RMA at Crucial

However, on the 3rd try someone understood my request. Instead of providing an invoice and then dealing with Crucial, they made an exception to RMA the RAM directly.

Process started on 2024-04-05, escalated on 2024-04-10, ack’d by RMA team on 2024-04-12, new ram arrived on 2024-04-16.

Went to ship the old ram back the next week, and to my surprise, I didn’t have to pay for return shipping. So a bit frustrating to start, but all is well that ends well.