Oups sorry for the doublings but what do you mean by regulations ? If a merch is already inside the EU it could travel without any further customs issue or so on.
But, I’ll check on for this topics, I’ll close this one then.
That does not apply to Framework as it is a US company, not an EU one. Different rules for foriegn companies.
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Of course, but I thought that Framework has already an HQ in EU like in Ireland or Germany.
Anyway thanks for the answer 
Is there any way to “close” properly this thread or do I just put like a label on the title ?
Regards
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@Thibaut_Delguste Only moderators can lock threads, no worries though. You can mark it closed in the title if you wish. Welcome to the forums!
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I’ll leave it open but mark it solved. Gonna try to summarize the available information here as well in just a sec.
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I wrote up a pretty detailed comment on this topic in which I summarized what Framework has said. I’ll elaborate a little bit more as well.
Nope! Framework is US-based, and everything is manufactured in Taiwan. They have a warehouse in the US, which is where non-laptop marketplace purchases for the US ship from. All laptop purchases and all non-US marketplace purchases ship directly from a third-party logistics provider in Taiwan. They do have warranty/refurb centers in Germany, USA, and Australia, but those are third-party contractors and they just act as a return address for RMAs, etc.
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We do not support resellers or VARs (Value Added Resellers) at this time. This is against our Terms of Sale. Should we decide to partner with distributors or reselling companies (business to consumer) at a later date, we’ll let the Community know.
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@amoun My comment was more a response to the first sentence of:
I’ve edited my post to remove the “incorrect” statement to be fair given the entire context of the post.
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I don’t know why topic is marked as solved if Framework is still not available in the most of EU states.
Framework is the first project I know that makes such wired limitations on delivery is some part of EU. Every other project (even the small ones) somehow manages to handle delivery to entire EU. It really is not a rocket science.
I think Framework should change it’s current approach to EU market. I know they are small company and the want to minimize risks. But they should find solution to support entire market instead of doing it per each country. With the current approach smaller countries would never have framework available.
I don’t buy most of explanation:
1 ) Translation: English instruction and support should not be a problem. They may have to add (for legal reasons) card with warnings an warranty condition in every EU language, but they are generic, and can be done once.
2 ) VAT: Is that hard to get 27 (or 30 including all EEA) vat rates for each country. The VAT system is common to entire EU only rates may differ for each country.
3) Warranty and return policy AFAIK they are common in entire EU. Warranty may be handled by one (few) existing locations
4) CE Certification is for entire EEA
5) Keyboard layout: I think many people will be happy with current ones. And with Framework approach to repairability it would be easy to replace to local one when its available.
6) Power plugs. Most charges has plug without ground, that will work in every country in continental Europe. If you need ground, universal German&French plug can work within entire EU
7) Payments. All EU payment/credit cads should work. They can use some European payment provider if they don’t do it already.
I know that Framework wont to provide the best experience for each region. But its better to provide minimal required level than artificially limiting availability.
“Solved” as in reason provided as to the “why”. Mystery solved.
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Because there is nothing else to discuss. Framework knows about it’s users wanting them to be available everywhere and they are actively working towards it. Do you expect them to give you a monthly progress report? They announce whenever they possibly can when new things develop.
Which small US-only company do you know that did open itself up to the whole EU market within 3 years of its beginning?
So why do you think they do it this way? To make it more complicated for themselves and to make their potential customers angry?
That one I can get behind.
The tax system works similiar, but not equally. In fact, the tax system in Germany is so complex alone that you most probably always want to hire a tax consultant if you have a company. Even for individuals it’s often more easier and cheaper to get one to do their taxes for them (we have to do this yearly) than to it yourself (and less error prone).
It’s sad that you’re talking so bodly about something you clearly have no clue about. No harm intended.
Yes and no. While there are similiar guidelines to the general ruling, countries can add to them. That is a big problem in the EU. We have rules that are for the whole EU, rules that are modified by a country but are EU wide, country specific rules, state specific rules and sometimes even city specific rules. This is not limited to warranty but refers to all kinds of laws.
Probably the only thing I can agree with.
Got any data to back this up?
Yes, chargers should not be an issue. However, based on my own experience, different countries do give different voltages, even though they shouldn’t. Not all countries have equally good electricity networks.
That might not be as easy as you think. Because of rules such as the GDPR and international laws, the data sharing between EU and American companies is viewed very critically here.
Case in point: A lot of american websites closed their services to European consumers because their cookie consent system did not abide to ours and they risked getting fined heavily!
All together, I do understand how urgently people want their Framework but not why they don’t either trust people responding on why it takes so long, especially the company in which the best interests lay to actually do this, nor why they dont research it themselves before posting it online.
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These threads and others like it should be locked. It’s tiring to hear the same complaints and refusal to accept the given answers over and over again.
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I think, they could find for example EU located importer/distributor that will handle that.
Tax system is generally complicated, but in this case only VAT and import tax are relevant. Import tax is regulated by EU, VAT is also mostly regulated by EU. They can use tax office to handle that for them. And if they had distributor it wouldn’t be an issue.
Return policy is unified in EU. Not sure about warranty, but I think so. Single market is regulated by EU and states nor regions can not add they regulations. (Except they apply to local business only)
I may look for that. But there was comments in this community, that people prefer US layout over local ones. But as I wrote they could make replacement keyboard later.
Data protection laws are common in EU. Each contry has different name for that. but all are implementation of the same EU directive. And they have to comply with it if they want operate within EU. BTW I pretty sure my card would just work.
I’ve never seen company that would sell in few EU countries only. I saw companies that sells in North America only and ones selling globally.
This example show that EU single market is fiction in this case. Maybe part of the problem is that EU and US has no trade agreement. I wonder if Framework was e.g. Canadian company, wouldn’t it be easier?
I mentioned this in another thread, but seems it needs to be reiterated regularly . The EU states VAT system is not that complex as of late - with the introduction of VAT One Stop Shops.
Isn’t this for low value goods only? (< 150€)
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Developers tend to do that.
Hmm, it seems so. IOSS won’t work then.
This is Framework’s official stance on expanding EU availability, per @TheTwistgibber on Discord:
Hello friends. As the conversation has shifted a bit from freight forwarding (as we’ve been shutting those down) to the legitimate question of why we aren’t just focusing on setting up international entities to streamline the EU restrictions that require significant overhead to enter new countries officially, here’s a bit of education for those that might not be in the know.
There’s a significant misunderstanding of how international operations work and what it takes to maintain multiple global entities for a company of less than 50 employees, all working remotely. While we absolutely understand everyone wants us to be everything, everywhere, all at once, we’re being compared to multi-billion dollar international behemoths as far as international presence, and even those companies aren’t everywhere, even to this day.
As a United States company operating internationally with offices in United States and Taiwan (Taiwan as our international shipping partner is there along with manufacturing), we are bound by different rules than EU-based businesses that wish to sell/ship their product throughout EU Member States.
Until we are at a scale with the appropriate finances, resources, and streamlined governmental authority to operate without what can only be described as crushing overhead, this can’t happen.
Given that this thread is just reiterating the same points over and over, it will now be closed.
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