Okay, so firstly, I think FrameWork is awesome.
I am a Thinkpad X1 and Macbook Pro user. I agree the Thinkpad keyboards aren’t bad, but I think people think of them as being so fantastic mainly because of the poor quality of most laptop keyboards.
I am surprised how many people are into the trackpoint, as I vastly prefer the huge touchpad on my Macbook Pro, since it can be used to zoom, rotate, etc. (My Thinkpad has a touch pad too, but … yeah the trackpoint is better than that, actually).
Anyway, I hope:
There will be a Japanese keyboard layout available soon.
There will be an option for a mac style layout vs. pc style. (The Japanese keyboard layout on the typical windows PC is very crowded with a very small space bar, and apple has found a good solution to that which seems not to be patented or anything since multiple keyboard manufacturers use it). Also… I don’t need “windows” keys for running Linux, and control vs. caps, etc.
For my mac, I use silicon keyboard “skins” most of the time. It would make sense to have such available for the framework as well. In fact, a really super idea would be to have the keyboard skins + the letterless keys, so you could (for some languages at least) swap the skin only.
Still, making the keyboard easily swappable means that it should be possible to have multiple versions, and if the specs were opened, then presumable 3rd parties could manufacture them as well?
Trackpoint is great for users who do a lot of text editing, since you don’t need to move your fingers from the keyboard, and with the buttons below the keyboard it’s easier to select text precisely than with a touchpad. You can easily scroll with Trackpoint, it’s easier to navigate web pages with a touchpad for sure.
Totally agree about the Japanese layout. The general key layout is fine and I got used to it, but as you say, it’s too crowded with redundant keys, when only one language key is really needed. I switched to US keyboards for that reason. It’s a shame more laptops sold in Japan don’t offer US keyboard options or replaceable keyboards, although I’d have been happy with a reduced Japanese layout that removed most of the language keys.
It makes sense how there would be no space for the full-size arrow keys. However, I do hope ‘the inverted T’ arrangement is reconsidered for a future iteration of the laptop.
An inverted T makes sense with full size keys, but in that particular case of the image you posted - there is absolutely no benefit to that layout. The only difference is that the layout on the right with the inverted T makes it much 50% harder to hit the side arrows.
I find the trackpad on my X1s (An X1C3 and C6 for work) to be excellent. I don’t need or want a drawing tablet under my palms - if I need a trackpad that big then I’ll exhaust myself (figuratively) just mousing around the screen.
I would prefer at least the option for a trackpoint, though, and I most certainly want physical buttons for the trackpad. I’ve grown to really appreciate them under the space bar on my X1Cs as it makes clicking and dragging substantially easier.
Thinkpads have something like 2/3 or 3/4 height keys in that cluster instead of 1/2 height, so the keyboard is not quite rectangular. I wish Framework had copied that idea for their keyboard. And copied how Thinkpads have a narrower horizontal pitch on the function key row so they can fit in home, end, and insert keys.
Why aren’t the page up/down, home, end keys usually a secondary function of arrow keys?
In my mind that would be ideal placement for them as they do very similar functions.
Why have 4 separate keys located somewhere other end of the keyboard.
I don’t know if i have ever used such keyboard, but it would seem logical and intuitive.
Pg up/down as separate buttons above the arrows… I would say no to that… Smaller keys, higher chance hitting the wrong key.
I guess that answers it a bit for me as I never use them together with shift. Meaning I forget that they even have a secondary function. Thus yes, a third function under same key would be too much.
I regularly use CTRL-SHIFT-PAGEUP/DOWN in Excel to select multiple tabs. It helps that CTRL and SHIFT are right next to each other, but it’s still a bit awkward; combining it with FN may be a bridge too far for me. Not a dealbreaker, but I do really hope that aftermarket keyboards start showing up soon.
A trackpoint synergizes well with separate PAGEUP/PAGEDOWN keys, since it’s all about keeping your hands on the keyboard.
I find it very convenient when reading documents to have one hand on the arrow cluster and be able to page-up and page-down. Having to do Fn+Up and Fn+Down or whatever will require using two hands.
I just wanted to come in here, and share my thoughts on the keyboard now that I’ve been using it for over 3 weeks.
TL;DR: I love it.
I am not saying it is perfect or better than the UHK or Moonlander keyboards I have and use on my workstation. What I am saying is that I feel like they really put some thought and effort into this keyboard and it shows, er… feels.
With how easy it is to remap keys, things that a lot of people are complaining about here are non-issues for me. It is a laptop keyboard. There are going to be compromises. Look at Thinkpads. They had arguably the best keyboards on the market, until Lenovo bought them out, and started getting rid of them, for what can only be explained as a cost savings measure.
This is just to say, that designing a keyboard for a laptop is a balancing act. The more features/keys, the more expensive it is to manufacturer and repair.
I think this keyboard is BETTER than the X230 keyboard I have. It might even be better than the X220T keyboard I have. Seriously.
I used to think the same, but I’ve noticed that the shorted but solid travel of the Framework keyboard allows you to move your fingers faster. From a pure speed point of view the Framework wins.
But the Xx20 line is the last of the real Thinkpad keyboard line. It is really good, but no backlight, and a much further travel means that while I type comfortably on it, I can’t type faster on it than the Framework.
THIS.
I’m also from Brazil, and the idea of Framework laptops is so compatible with the country of ‘Gambiarra’ and our culture to fix instead of buy a new one.
A portuguese ABNT-2 layout would be fantastic. I can’t wait for this.
@arrowkeys Actually it makes NO sense how there would be no space for the full-size arrow keys
You just shave off the GIANT right shift key
Though I really wish they could squeeze in the full layout with home/end/pgup/pgdn too. It’s possible on 14 inch as my Lenovo Yoga3 1470 has it and on that one there is plenty of space to spare, so this should fit just fine even if it would be a tight squeeze.
(the first column of keys on the left side could be shaved off a little to help accommodate this and they do not need to be full-width)
Some of us make more mistakes while touch typing on a keyboard with a shrunken right shift key.
Seriously, though. The fact that the Framework laptop has a keyboard with familiar key locations and sizes was a significant contributing factor in my decision to buy one. I liked most of the Razer Blade laptop features, but the old models with a short right shift were infuriating for me to type on. I also spent a day with a friend’s HP laptop that has a similar short shift layout and I just couldn’t get comfortable with it.
I’m perfectly OK with the arrow key arrangement if I still get a proper right shift.
