Thunderbolt, yes or no or not jet?

@SebasContre
Thanks for the hint, so your Voting for a “not-yet” :smiley:
Have a good one :smiley:

@Johannes_T Right now, I definitely would. There’s a slight chance I might get weak at the end of the year if the new Macbook Pro is affordable and has glowing reviews, but I don’t think I will, since 16GB RAM and a decently sized SSD would cost me 500€ extra or so.

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For all i know a their Pro Modells will be for the higher end. I think Dave2D explained it in on of his videos pretty good: The middle class and entry marked is happy with the m1 and their new chip can be a beast for the TDP and he thinks, that apple will make their Pro Modells with a high price tag (and i think they will have 16GB RAM standard).

I have a modded MacBook Air 2020 with an intel i7, for now and i think this is good enough for my daily task for a few more yers, but this laptop is sooo sweet…

What a backround do you have, how did you find your way here (and what laptop for now)?

Greetings!

PS.: Sollten der hier in Deutschland mal was werden kann man ja auch auch mal ein deutsches Treffen machen (ohne dass ich dann einen habe XD)

I think thats the one: The Next MacBook - YouTube

For now I have an early 2015 Macbook Pro, for which Apple would give me about 400€ credit if I bought a new one (at least that’s the figure they gave me a few months ago). Therefore a 1400€ Macbook Pro might be enticing to me, but anything above that probably not so much since I’m a student.

I found out about the Framework laptop by reading articles about it in both heise.de and golem.de.

P.S.: Ich denke die Chancen stehen ganz gut, dass schon der nächste CCC in Teilen ein inoffizielles Framework-Treffen wird :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Hello,

USB4 is essentially the fourth generation of USB and Thunderbolt (Source), combining them into a single port with additional options such as charging capabilities and video output. Thunderbolt 4 on the other acts more like a certification, whenever you see TB4 you know that the port is capable of charging your laptop/delivering power of at least a certain wattage, has video output and phyiscal protection against DMA attacks. More about Thunderbolt 4

The USB-C expansion card is an USB4 port.

Greetings

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Thanks for the explanation!

My question was also: Is the Laptop in the certification Prozess or is it already finished?

Greetings!

The Laptop would need to have the chipset and CPU that can read and write at that speed. It would be limited by the motherboard and USB controllers. It may not be right now since it was not made when USB 4 was a thing so it may take some time for the team to make a USB4 or Thunderbolt compatible Motherboard. (CPU Option spec compares Link)
Since the Laptop is highly upgradable you will likely see it later as a trade in or as a new option when available. Plus they would have to get the approval from Intel for Thunderbolt and that costs a lot so a smaller company would not afford to get it Certified for Thunderbolt 4 even if the laptop can do it.

I’m quite new the forum, but as far as I’ve seen the actual plugs in the computer are TB4. People have used Thunderbolt eGPUs and Thunderbolt docks and in most cases things just work.
To be clear, I don’t believe the USB-C expansion modules are TB4, but the internal connectors of the mainboard that the modules plug in to are TB4.
~ Jamie

TB4, USB4 And USB-C all use the same connector. Same how Mini Displayport is also used as TB2 port. So it more on the protocol than the connector.

So EGPU would be possible but would not all fit in an expansion card. But would be interesting as a card. But would have to be more than 1 slot or external wire so a docking card for the eGPU and/or External dock.

The CPU is Thunderbolt 4 certified, but not sure if it has been enabled on the motherboard. From the YT videos creators have made (Adam Savage Tested, LTT, and more) have confirmed USB-C spec but from what they have shown it does not show that the USB-C Expansion card is TB4 or USB4 speeds. And would need more testing with a Thunderbolt dock or eGPU to the internal port to test

It would be likely that the connection to the chassis is TB4 but the expansion card might be the limiting factor as @The_Cyber_System has also said.

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The USB-C Expansion cards support USB4, as described in the product specs. (here). What we don’t know yet is whether they will be Thunderbolt 4 certified.

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And to add, everything we have seen here in the past suggests that Framework are seeking TB certification. If they were not, I think they would just have said so.

On April 2, @nrp said

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So far, with my laptop, it comes with thunderbolt software installed and connects to my egpu (mostly) correctly (there’s a whole thread over the issue here ), but, if there’s a worry over thunderbolt capability, I’d lean towards it’s probably safe to assume it has thunderbolt, they just can’t say anything officially

@njf @FaultedBeing
Thanks for your answers, that helped me :smiley:
Greetings and have a nice day!

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@nrp is it that they do work but are not certified for the USB-C expansion cards and laptop. I think the community would be fine for it works but not fully at this moment since it is so new.

USB 4 is supposed to be almost duplicate of the TB4 standard so Thunderbolt 3&4 should work just need drivers.

Thunderbolt has a formal certification process that involves some pretty extensive testing (totally justified given the complexity). It’s basically that we have to chase down test fails one at a time and resolve them to pass certification.

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And let us acknowledge the ‘economics’ of this: ‘Thunderbolt 4’ certification also requires a payment to Intel. So at this moment in time USB4 is a way to provide Thunderbolt 4 performance without the cost of Intel’s certification. USB 4: Everything We Know, Including Apple Support | Tom’s Hardware (tomshardware.com)

BTW: I hope Intel does the right thing and removes/reduces the certification ‘cost’ to help facilitate the widespread adoption of high-performance connection (Apple / Lightning → facepalm)

I have a Thunderbolt 3 Akito Node Pro eGPU hanging around that never seemed to work well with my XPS 13.

As soon as FedEx decides to deliver my laptop i’ll throw a card in it and do some quick tests locally under Linux.

I even have a NVIDIA Tesla K80 card which pushes the TB3 standard to the limits (huge PCIe bar)

If the above works, i’ll certify the laptop as 3 BoltThunder compatible. $20 USD is expected upon certification. :upside_down_face:

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Oof. Things went poorly under ArchLinux with a recent 3.16.5 kernel. The system definitely has Thunderbolt capability out of the box. However, lots of hard lockups and issues expanding the PCIe bus to the eGPU.

Unclear if the issue is the Linux drivers or the Thunderbolt firmware. Windows might be better… but who runs windows?

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Is anyone aware of an official Framework statement / update / response / follow-up to this?

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