If LM is no longer used, can’t you just remove the shim? When I searched about vapor chamber most results were vapor chamber vs heat pipe, not vapor chamber & heat pipe. The FL16’s heat transfer route is like CPU → shim → vapor chamber → heat pipe. Heat transfer is like electricity conduction, putting resistors in series adds up the total resistance. Is using vapor chamber between the CPU and heat pipe really a good idea?
Yeah I just tested my RMA board that I’ve had for around 3 months and got similar results compared to the numbers I got when I first installed the board. I filled out the PTM 7950 request form, so we’ll see how it goes when those start shipping.
Heat pipes aren’t flat, you loose contact area each time the pipes connect to each other.
The shim/vapor chamber is to make sure the entire die is touching the heatsink assembly.
Without the shim, there is no contact, or you’re relying on thermal material to make up the difference, which isn’t as good as just copper
I’m wondering that if you use PTM7950/7958 do you still need the shim?
Ptm is still thermal paste. It’s not as efficient as pure copper in conductivity. The more metal you replace with tm, the worse results you get
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I came across this thread and tried to perform this test on my Batch 1 FW16 machine. And it seems I got the worst results across the thread 
Am I missing something, or the situation is so bad?
prerequisites:
Original FW16 180W charger - connected
Battery - 100%
Performance mode is on
results:
Cinnebench result - 11858
During the test: CPU package power max - 27.5W
Core 4 reached 100 degrees C
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I think that’s the lowest score that’s been reported on this thread so far. I’m sorry to hear that your performance is likely worse than it started after all that work. Thanks for sharing though so the rest of us can learn from it.
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At the manufacturing level, sure. DIY? I really doubt it.
It would be nice if Cooler Master would revamp the design of the vapor chamber so it would contact the CPU die without need of an added shim. But as it stands, I doubt you could just remove the shim and still have everything contact properly.
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thank you for your reply.
Now the only question I have: will the replacement to PTM7950 help, or it’s something more severe, and I should write straight to the customer support? Could the improper LM thermal application harm the CPU somehow?
Just removing the Shim for direct Contact does not work. The Contractpressure and Angles are not fitting for a full contact to the Die.
Updated my previous support case asking to rma for a ptm board -
“ Thank you for your reply. Currently, the implementation started at the factory in mid-November, but there is still an existing stock of mainboards without PTM pads that need to be utilized first.
If you would like a PTM pad, you can fill out the request form via this link: Phase Change Thermal Pad Kit Request form “
So people with issues are now basically stuck until next year and even then you can only get the pad kit.
@Destroya @nrp - Is that correct? Issue boards have no priority?
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As there are no old boards without this issue I don’t see why they should 
Sending us the PTM kits seems faster and more cost effictive
Whats your Problem? You sent the Request and you get PTM, you vould have already bought yourself some.
The procedure of getting it is not an RMA but the Typeform Request.
My problem is those PTM kits wont be shipping until “early” 2025. And it seems like priority is being given by FW to new orders rather than those with existing issues.
And the “we have existing non PTM boards that need to be used first”? Where? FW are willing to still use these boards with known issues?
Am I over-reacting? Maybe. But I feel like FW should be servicing existing customers with issues first. And can I just request a PTM kit? Sure. (for the record I already had) but should I have to for a manufacturing defect? Not really.
Meanwhile I have a £2k+ laptop that will not perform to its best ability and makes a lot of noise during the simplest tasks. A lot of my colleagues who have to put up with the fans would now never consider a FW.
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But if they would first send us the new boards with PTM and give the others the old ones FW would just create even more work for themselves
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They should be writing off the LM boards (or at least retrofitting PTM in factory). I know its cost to FW but what use are they if all boards are going to degrade?
Other than postponing the inevitable.
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Why do “NEW” customers get a special treatment and get new boards? What are we existing customers chopped liver??? We paid the same price as new customers so why are we getting stuck with the defective board? I got my machine in September!!
Have Cooler Master pay for the remaining defective boards!
Right, that will certainly get things going at a faster pace… /s
Entering contract negotiations with CM to have them pay for remaining boards will just result in a ton of lawyers fees and lots of delay.
I think people are blowing up a bit here over what’s at the end of the day, an enthusiast’s tinkering. PSierra’s results are very good, and he’s documented his methods/means very well. If you want similar results, go ahead and make the changes yourself now, no need to wait.
Keep in mind however, that Framework and CM have delivered exactly what’s on the tin. The standard heatsink with LM is capable of holding ~45W sustained. The board and heatsink design work as stated.
What PSierra’s modifications show are when fully optimized, this design can actually deliver much higher, to be competitive with the top of class machines using these specs.
The PTM change from LM still only solves one of the issues found anyway. It does not resolve the shim-heatsink interface. Nothing stops you from buying some PTM online and replacing the LM yourself. If you really want to get into it, go for the PTM-Shim-PTM sandwich method, if soldering is a step too far.
Also, for what it’s worth, every laptop I’ve ever owned with a dGPU and 45W rated CPU chip has made a lot of noise. The framework 16 isn’t an outlier on that front. +2K costs on a windows machine does not mean quiet. If you wanted that, you should be shopping Macs.
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Ok, I agree with mostly what you explained quite nicely. I will just accept the fact I placed an order 2 months too early and for that I must suffer and endure.
Thanks for the Words
@NEITG @Machine You will get your PTM, but not at the Pace as YOU want. You have to understand there are Delivery Chains and a Distributing Network.
Framework JUST implemented the Changes into the Production that doesn’t mean they have a Full Buttload of PTM in Stock lying around for beeing delivered ASAP. If you want it now buy it now. No other Manufacturer would send a Fix to an existing Problem on their Devices, they would write it off and wouldn’t be any transparent about it.
And Machine there are alot of People who have their Device alot longer than you and endured more pain with 3-4 RMAs on the Boards, that laid the Foundation that we get a Fix now.
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