I don’t believe we’ve gotten any specific answer on this for 12th Gen. I would guess yes, but we’ll probably never find out since we’ve prevented entry to the state where we could check it.
I believe we’ve communicated each part of the post separately in different threads and support documents, but it’s always helpful to collate it together into one summary.
The same goes for TBT. We’re working with the USB-PD controller supplier and test lab on it. We’re doing unique things (having 4 ports, for one), so it takes new types of development and validation that they haven’t faced on other products, resulting in more time and iterations required.
This is no different from other laptops and PCs. The questions still unanswered is why did framework choose to use a very low capacity battery that only lasts a couple weeks? In combination, why does this battery drain so quickly versus typical laptops? Is there a higher drain in framework versus typical machines? If so, why?
Laptop users expect system clock to be retained for years unplugged, not weeks.
I think I understand what you are trying to say but this is a little misleading - according to sites like Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats Windows is the operating system that most use. Saying this isn’t a problem for “most operating systems” is a bit of a downplay. I realize the Linux distribution is likely higher among framework customers but for Windows users, internet will not sync automatically if far off. Internet is unusable with a wrong system time (certificate mismatch) and software that relies on logging even without internet is useless without clock.
Worth noting this is opposite to the recommended practice for preserving battery longevity.
Is there any possible design solution that can allow the pressing of the power button to boot the machine?
For me, I’ll just go old school: wall plug on/off schedule → power adapter → USB-PD → Framework laptop. (On for 8 hours, one day a week)
That seems to be the workaround for now.
And now that I know it’s Intel who fxxxed us on this, I’ll bark at their tree.
This is good, really good. With this info / knowledge made public, I can see that the “improved reset circuit” is not just for ‘reset’…but also a preventive measure. Knowing this now, it gives me an increased confidence level towards the 12th gen board.
I’m also good with this justification. Just needed to know we’re still moving forward / progressing.
Really appreciate this update. It’s the level of transparency I’ve seen at the beginning…but somehow lacked in the past few months. We’re good again.
Can you confirm whether the 11th gen board is still on the certification train? i.e. There’s no known hardware issue / limitation resulted from testing (or the certification process) that prevents it from ever getting a TB4 certification, right?
I feel like you guys are letting them off the hook super quickly. There was a distinct lack of responsibility in this post and no real answers. Also notice how my post still trying to get the truth goes ignored. The only slight improvements are offered in the next generation board of which there is no way to currently obtain.
Meanwhile he points us to support who also just say I should sell the laptop. I have probably less than 10 hours of usage on my framework and every time I’ve gone to use it I’ve dealt with the machine not being able to boot and the system clock requiring to be set manually.
Still there is no reasoning offered why it is this way in the first place. Support said this was a design decision (purposeful) and there is so much mixed signaling going on. It is super weird to me.
I have drafted a letter to Framework and will be going over it for a few days, taking into account your and others’ experiences, as I agree, something doesn’t add up.
After rereading my thread with support and nrp’s post above, I think I am now more upset than I started because I feel like there is political maneuvering going on. If you are a new company with a loyal following, you need to admit mistakes, explain them, and make it right. Instead, there is some finger pointing going on both internally (between here, nrp, and support) and externally (blame Intel, manufacturing partner).
The fact nrp solicits users opening support tickets and then support is advising me to sell my machine back to this community makes me feel like they are trying to take advantage of the good will they had previously generated among their supporters (including myself).
Does anyone else think this is the road to generating more waste rather than preventing it?
…that’s because I’ve accepted my fate…at the point where, for this particular issue, there’s nothing to be done in my case. It’s Intel’s issue. For other people, the most they can do is a RTC battery swap, or a board swap…which Framework/nrp mentioned is the path forward.
To me, the past doesn’t matter…it’s the actions going forward that matters now.
In my case, the 11th gen board is a sunk cost. I’ll look to the 12th gen board reviews.
Nope, support said they won’t do this so it’s not available to anyone. This is basically a series of finger pointing with no admission of mistake or actual resolution.
If that is really an issue then yes you are correct but isn’t that inevitable.
I really don’t care about the waste only about people being upset because they feel ignored or abused.
It’s not about money or material resources. Does anyone have the strength to realy care, not for me or for you but for their own integrity, because I don’t want to associate myself with people who don’t care.
If the business is truely about caring then it may stutter, if it’s about money it’s already dead.
This is why it hits so hard. I was caught up in the Just Cause of framework. I’m on vacation with my family right now - I brought my framework and of course dealt with all of these issues (again) so pretty much my whole vacation has been consumed with researching and reading forums and trying to contact support to find out why I have to deal with this every time I go to use it. This is supposed to be a time of relaxation and yet…
I was inspired and caught up in what framework was supposed to be… There are so few companies these days that you can truly get behind and vote with your wallet. But instead, yes I am feeling a little ignored and a little abused a lot let down.
Ugh, but that’s exactly what I was trying to avoid! I ordered on July 30, 2021. Received the laptop finally in October and only used it a handful of times - each time dealing with these issues and spending time reading and researching, doing resets and bios updates, hoping it was fixed. Now finally find out its a design flaw they won’t own up to, where the only fix is a new laptop (or a new main board they won’t swap or sell me).
At this point it’s a year of “hopium” and frustration and it seems like framework wants me to just get rid of the laptop so they don’t have to deal with this issue. Most expensive beta test of all time - both in money but also frustration and emotional investment destroyed.
I get it. I absolutely get it. Trust me…I’ve been there mentally, emotionally, financially…
I do wish they have an old-board trade-in program. At the moment, all 11th gen customers are just suckers and guinea pigs (myself included)…willing ones too, unfortunately. It’s definitely a lesson learnt…don’t buy gen 1 products…ever. Now, I’m just going to wait it out, and see how the 12th gen boards play out. Going back to ThinkPads, or Precisions, or zBooks in the meantime…people who really CAN build laptops.
You’ll be better off just cut your loses…and save your sanity and mental health. At least, that’s what I’ve decided on. Hope you’ll find peace.
By the way, since it’s an Intel silicon bug, it must also affect other brands as well. Has anyone found any mention of this anywhere else? Specifically, how are other brands handling this?