I have been having some issues powering on my laptop for about a month. Every weekend, I try to turn on my laptop, and it refuses to do anything. Some mixture of removing parts like the SSD, RAM, or WiFi card seemed for a while to help, but every time, I would still need to plug in the laptop.
After contacting support, they said that the RTC battery was likely dead, and to leave the laptop charging for 24 hours for the RTC battery to recharge.
The battery is rated for 3V, but after charging for around 30 hours with the Framework power brick, it is only at 2.81V when read with a voltmeter. It does seem to charge about 0.02V higher with around 12 hours of charging from what I’ve seen on my laptop, and I was wondering if anyone else might have had similar power issues, or if the charge rate for my RTC battery was too slow.
It could be that they don’t expect the battery to need a full charge with frequent use. I also have the charge limit for the laptop set to 80%, so I was also wondering if it may charge faster with the laptop battery at 100% which could be an oversight in the BIOS update or something like that.
Good information. I did a reset not long ago and I am having charging problems now. The LED by the charger port is white, showing the battery charged, but I can’t run the laptop w/o the power adapter engaged. So maybe it’s the RTC battery?
I reseated; flex cable socket, RTC and battery connector. All is well and my Framework is running like deere. (Texas pun)
Can I also add the question of:
Why is this a thing? “processor goes into a bad state with low RTC battery voltage”
I’m guessing that addressing the RTC battery drain (whatever that root cause is) will mean the bad process state would occur a lot less frequently (say, once every 5 years, maybe)? As opposed to every bloody week (for some users).
I can offer to help test this out. I may wind up wishing that I hadn’t, but I will. I have a second framework that is a family machine and used infrequently. I typically shut it down when done using it, so it’s not in sleep mode. I have not run into the no-boot case, but maybe I haven’t let it sit long enough. Typically it gets used weekly, if that.
In order to help me to test this, can someone summarize what the situation was leading up to the issue? There may be many different modes to test here, so I will try to collect them and keep a list going.
Thanks!
For visibility here’s the initial thread I was a part of:
@lbkNhubert for testing I have simply left the unit fully powered off for at least a week before trying to use it again. The power button fails to start the boot. I am unable to get the laptop to boot until I plug it into AC
Oh sure, you can definitely open it up and remove the battery following the reset guide every time but it since it doesn’t really resolve the drain issue I’ve since stopped bothering.
When it fails to boot for me I simply plug it into the wall now
This is such a sad, depleting, depressing issue to have on a laptop in 2022. #DarkCloud
I originally started seeing this about a month or two ago. I really only use my framework once weekly to play D&D with some buddies on the weekend. After a couple of missed sessions, I stopped being able to turn the laptop on at all, and started pulling the RAM, SSD, RTC battery, etc. out to see if that would help, and after a bit of tinkering, it would turn back on. Usually after plugging it in to the charger for maybe a minute total. Then it started happening every week that I’d have to do this.
Since speaking with Framework’s support team, and not having a pleasant experience with it, but that is separate, I had left the laptop charging for about a day and a half, and stopped experiencing the issue while they were sending a replacement main board. I haven’t had the issue since, and have occasionally checked the RTC battery voltage. It’s been hovering around 2.8 V pretty much the whole time after.
So was the issue resolved with the replacement board or just stopped happening altogether on the original? Which model board do you have?
I have the i5 model, though I don’t believe this is an issue with any particular model from what I’ve seen on the forums.
I was only testing with the original for a few days before the replacement main board arrived, and I haven’t even had that for a month yet. It hadn’t happened on the original for the few days after I tried leaving it charging for an extended period, and it hasn’t happened on the new one since, as I have been careful to put it on the charger on weeks I wasn’t using it.
I dont buy the sustainability justification at all. Non-rechargable button cell RTC batteries last YEARS and can be recycled (at least in the UK). This is a case of micro-optimisation that is far more trouble than it is a benefit.
Forget that comment it’s a typo. It should read “it just wont boot from battery alone”.
This problem has been solved now… button cell holder was not soldered to board properly. New main board fitted and everything is fine. Did notice further comments on button cell depleting quickly. This is happening to me now. But all other problems are solved. Sorry for the confusion.
Took 17 emails with support before they admitted there was no fix - hardware or software planned for this. I asked to return my relatively unused machine since I can’t boot it up without connecting AC. They refused. I think they are trying to downplay this design flaw and it really has me disheartened about the company.
I am considering joining Floatplane and seeing if I can bring it to Linus attention at the next WAN show. He’s exactly the kind of person that would call out how terribly this is being handled.
I was so optimistic for framework to bring the change we needed. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
If possible could you send some references to these? I’m curious what went on here! 
My guess is tech support is doing their best but this is an Engineering and Product Management issue. Unfortunately, there is a serious lack of transparency to the public over the real root of the issue and its making me very suspicious of framework overall. I feel like I’ve been suckered into the exciting idea of an open and transparent company that wants products to be good, fair, and to last but in practice there is still quite a bit of obfuscation going on.
I would really prefer framework leadership to acknowledge there is an issue and agree to look for a fix. Given they are signaling the opposite via support - they believe the issue does not affect the majority of users (but still there is an issue) - I’d want them to offer to take my machine back for refund as I believe it fails to deliver what is generally expected by customers of this type of technology.
I don’t even have this problem and I feel the same way.
At first I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they “have a lot going on” but at this point it seems clear that they’re being overly cautious about commenting on problems.
I can see where that’s coming from – if they acknowledge problems or innadvertently over-commit to a solution that never materializes it’s easy to argue you shouldn’t have said as much.
But there is most certainly a better balance from what we’re seeing – radio silence is the exact opposite of what I expected from this company given the community enthusiasm that they have to work with.
Fire the lawyers!
In UK law they need to fix the problem, issue a refund or risk court action. In the US there is a chance of a class action lawsuit if enough people feel aggrieved. This shouldn’t be the case though, they could fix the problem, it maybe costly for them. To not respond after the amount of chatter on the forum, to my mind, shows an amount of contempt for their users.
It’s a real shame that things have deteriorated to such an extent, causing such bad feeling, when people really wanted to help make Framework viable. Bad press is never a good thing, but, for a start-up, even more so.
To be fair rechargeable RTC batteries cost more, so I don’t see this as a micro-optimization. If the drainage issue was not present, this battery would last even longer than a non-rechargeable.
The battery retains BIOS settings as well. Being able to maintain the clock might also be a component involving the TPM and Secureboot. Most computers use these.
I know this doesn’t help anyone suffering the drainage problem here, but both of the Framework laptops I have do not exhibit that issue. To be fair, I use my laptop at least once during a week, and it is charged usually once a week. My wife’s stays plugged in with the 80% threshold active, unless she needs to go somewhere with it.
Perhaps just mentioning somewhere that the laptop should be plugged in at a minimum of once a week might prevent this issue?
I understand how frustrating this is for people though.
its not optimising for cost, its optimising for repairability/sustainability. On paper a rechargeable battery is better than a single use in both aspects. In reality, it’s not the case.