How pessimistic. The 12th gen is shipping in a few months, the 11th gen is going to work (especially with Windows), even if there is some small “issues” (e.g., some batches have some “bad” charging circuit because of chip shortage, some have a different audio chip) but it’s not going to prevent you from being able to work on the laptop normally.
There are “issues” with external display “cards” but it might also be issues with linux, and you can always just get a USB-C dongle (instead of the card)
I think worst case the 12th gen is going to perform equal (to the macbook) in tems of CPU and GPU is 20% slower. Best case, the CPU is 30% faster and the GPU is equal.
The integrated graphics had such a leap going fron 7th gen. 10th gen is already a visible step forward (64EU pre-Xe cores), and 11th officially brings 96 EU to the table. Computing performance, too.
However it is not known how good your GPU (Radeon 560 PRO) is. If it is slightly faster than GTX 960M and slower than a GTX 965M, then maybe it’s a tie.
However the above is all based on the assumption that both device can cool their internals properly. The framework can (for the most part; max turbo clock is unsustainable, but the chip will not do that anyway), but I don’t know about Macbooks. They have a tendency to let the CPU (and GPU) go to 100 degrees and thermal throttle.
You can still attach eGPU, if you have one, to boost your graphics performance. Keep in mind that the setup have a fairly substantial initial cost (of $150 for the enclosure and/or other bits) and the cards, while the price are dropping, is still on the expensive side.
And if 16GB of memory is not enough (remember to restart your computer from time to time), you will certainly want 32GB, or more, especially since the internal graphics don’t have much dedicated video memory.
well, as mentioned, he is not switching from M1 (but from a old intel mac), and he is looking for modularity and repairability (which the Macs just don’t offer)
12th gen still hold some ground against the M1, but having memory right next to the chip (as well as the tight integration of everything) give M1 some advantage. A bit more so with M2.
Soldered storage though, big nono. “Security”, but once your laptop dies your data is stuck inside.
Thanks for all the informative replies to my post as I had no idea that framework uses different companies for producing sound chips (or onboard DACs) which could affect sound quality when editing sound on a video editors timeline.
I can see I’ll have to invest in an external DAC (uses one of the USBC ports) in future as well.
I also didn’t realise that Intels iGPU has progressed so much since the 7th gen was released (Kabylake) in 2017, in terms of video editing performance.
I’ll wait for the reviews and benchmarks of the 12th gen (Alderlake) framework laptops before I commit to buying one.
I hope things don’t throttle with the framework as I need as much performance as I can get when editing multicam 4K clips or even multiple 4K clips on the timeline.
By comparison my current 2017 MBP can edit 4 4K 60FPS clips into a single multi clip file which is pushing it for this system or when editing multiple 4k clips at the same time.
Reasons I want to get the framework:
Supports more ram than current intel mac
Supports more storage
Everything’s upgradable unlike a mac which has everything soldered on.
Good keyboard with no Touch Bar which freezes regularly for me.
Better value for money. Never again will I pay £2344 for another mac like I did for this one.
no the framework (at least the current gen) is able to hold at a reasonable temperature (i think 70 degrees under load). Similar figured for the 12th gen too. For a single-fan laptop this is quite good.
Yes, the M1 is faster. They are also, in fact, properly cooled (unlike the Intel Macs, which may lead you to think funny things)
But also, 11th gen isn’t really “good”, in terms of GPU, yes, it have the Xe. But the CPU have not really changed. It’s also 14nm (and maybe 10nm) and it’s no surprise that the 5nm M1 (especially with its unified architecture) is going to be able to slap it left right and center.
If you are looking into a (actual) mobile workstation to do heavy working on, though, I think you might be better off looking at products from other companies (e.g. dell, hp, asus) as they have models with discrete graphics (as well as more powerful components), which might be able to help. They also have modular memory and storage, although they are not as devoted to repair-friendliness and support as the framework. If you just want a (decently powerful) ultrabook with amazing repairability and support, Framework is for you.
Mobile workstation is the way to go, IMO… Especially if it’s work related, has colour reproduction accuracy (dE) needs (beyond just the sRGB space), requires high performance encoding support / dGPU (e.g. h265)…with high throughput, and hardware expansion capabilities (e.g. THICK ones can go up to 4 DIMMS, with 3 m.2 NVMe slots…beyond thin&light category).
There’s also a question of how much processing capability you need on-the-go / built-in, and how much you can externalise (eGPU to distributed to desktops/network)…
For example, a low end mobile workstation, with i7-1280p, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, nVidia T550 4GB, and WQUXGA HDR 400 500nits display is $2232 CAD:
I’ve had a think about it and I do think framework laptops can work for me due to budget, weight and performance considerations.
My plan might be to go down the framework DIY kit route, so I can buy a faster CPU and iGPU and spend less on RAM/storage from other shops so I’ll get the kind of spec I’m looking for, but pay less for it.
Has anyone here brought any model as a DIY kit and what was the experience like from building it to installing windows 11?
Hi welcome,
Framework 12th gen will start delivering in July.
You need to look at review of other laptops with a 30W TDP cooling.
You are lucky since most reviews now include the Cinebench test on video editing…since the only advantage of new intel iteration is multi threading workload. Single CPU performence is the same as previous.
From what I have read the 12th gen peforms very good on video editing. It all depend on the power and cooling of the CPU. Some use 15W-20W. framework uses 30W.
Now all the review point out that 12th gen is more power hungry…and framework didn t increase the battery size(no space because of modularity).
bottom line: I d say take the i5 you should get the comparable result with latest Mac…with futur upgradability, but weaker battery life than current M1 mac.
quite worthless comparison consider there is absolutely no data on thermals or actual power draw.
something the Core i7-1270P can’t on account of the lower base TDP. Therefore explains the poor performance.
That sentence is first riddle with grammar errors, and second is not true. 1270P is a even higher binned variant of the 1260p
You can tell the Thinkpad X1 Yoga G7’s thermal is absolute trash as the performance degrades very significantly as the cooler become heat-soaked and struggle to expel it
The i7 and i5 is effectively the same, except the i7 have more cache and better graphics.
It reads fine to me, like this:
…something the Core i7-1270P can’t [do] on account of the lower base TDP
“on account of” == “because of” == “due to”
That 1240p with a raised 50w PL1 is really fast…and stable thermal as well, according to the graph. If Lenovo raise the PL1 of the 1270P to 50w, then sure, the 1270P will be faster. However, with such a huge gap (1270p @ 28w, vs 1240p@50w…sustained)…there’s no competition really…even when the 1270p is the higher binned ‘processor’. The Yoga Slim 7i is the better tuned product though, overall, in terms of thermals and compute capability.
It seems there’s a lot more to digest than I realised with these laptops compared to using the mac or even some other laptops.
When the 12th gen frameworks available for sale, can someone let me know how fast these can edit 4K video as that’s what I do for work as well as how fast it encodes videos in handbrake? As I want to invest in a good laptop and avoid getting ripped off by Apple’s ridiculous pricing for RAM,storage, SoC, ports etc.
It looks like Framework could potentially be that laptop for me because its light, has more ports than the macbook air and 13in Macbook Pro models, has a faster processor than my existing mac from 2017 (Kabylake).
I do wish finding info on this forum was much easier with more kinds of people using these machines, as I get the impression the forums were aimed at programmers and developers rather than video editors like me or even the average user.
If we want to push the laptop industry to finally stop soldering storage and RAM and make laptops upgradeable, then we’ll need to appeal to a wide range of potential users so the main laptop companies stop holding onto these practices and finally let us upgrade RAM and storage without paying ridiculous prices (like Apple).
I think that’s it. I’m not used to a platform that doesn’t focus on how fast a laptop can edit 4k videos for a living like I usually do so you can forgive the confusion I have.
Anyways I’m the kind of guy who’s used to asking around for recommendations before buying a new laptop rather than buying first and then regretting it later.
But anyways I believe framework can work for me with a few adjustments mainly moving away from mac only apps to windows apps for my work plus buying the required RAM (32GB ram kit) and storage (1TB plus SSD).
I’m always open to learning about a platform especially if I’m moving away from mac to PC like I would from my old mac to the framework.
Anyways thanks to everyone here for answering my previous questions on my thread here.
Like I said. If you truly want performance laptops (designed for such workflows) go get a mobile workstation from another company. Dell or Hp or Asus.
I don’t trust/recommend lenovo because their machines’ build quality/quality have been on the drop, even if on the surface they seems alright. Both of my machines have terrible problems (random bluescreens, charger issues, etc) that other laptops does not have.
I want to summarise my views re the framework laptop for video editing as a lot has been said in this thread.
First of all I want to thank you for your insight into what makes these laptops great and how I can deal with any issues that come up. I’ve learned more from this forum since I joined this community which is awesome.
Ok so here’s what I think about the different areas of the framework laptop:
Performance
I’m satisfied that this laptop will meet my needs as a 4K video editor most of the time due to the latest Intel processors using more modern technology and versions of Intel quick sync (used for accelerating hardware encoding/decoding, so things like Davinci Resolve, Premiere Pro, handbrake use it).
If I ever come across a situation where I need a better GPU, I can either upgrade the main board with a newer processor or use an external GPU as that’s also supported here.
Cost
I’m impressed with how affordable this laptop is as it’s far cheaper than any Mac and offers similar or better performance for the price than the M1/M2 models.
Eg if I buy the DIY kit with a core i7 12th gen processor, I can have 32GB RAM and 1TB storage for around £1400 total in the U.K. (when buying those 2 parts from local shops I know).
Whereas in the Mac world, it could cost me over £2,400 for such a configuration in their MacBook Pro lineup.
Weight.
This is much lighter than most macs so it’ll be much easier on my back at 1.3kgs compared to 1.83kgs with my current MacBook Pro 2017 laptop.
Repairability and expansion.
This laptop is perfect for me as it allows me to do 3 common repairs I’d so myself instead of paying apple so much for fixing a worn out battery plus I can expand RAM and storage later on.
There’s simply nothing like this laptop in the marketplace right now.
Would I buy this laptop and ditch my MacBook Pro 2017? Yeah 10/10
yes. Bang for buck is actually okay, especially with the DIY versions.
Eeh.
Personally I am willing to lug around a 4 pound 15 inch laptop that is just … a aircraft carrier. Not everyone is into those and I understand.
But, but. That’s the impression “old me” have with thin and lights ('s tendency to overheat). Framework (and my other laptop)'s thermal solution is actually quite good.
Yes. There is currently nothing that can be compared to Framework in this realm. Not beside Fairphone, that is.
Welcome aboard!
(and yes, I am going to get a framework too. Once I actually go and upgrade)
Following up on this thread to see if there’s any new information about video editing with the 12th Gen. I just placed a deposit on one and plan to do some mobile editing with it. I got the 4TB had so that I can make proxies to reduce CPU load. I fully anticipate some thermal throttling with encoding but I think all small laptops (like my current XPS13) will face the same issue.
I was considering the MBP14 for my needs, and by all accounts it would be great. But I am an advocate of right to repair (and right to upgrade). I’m hoping to get 4-5 years out of my Framework with a mid-cycle upgrade. At the end of those 4-5 years, I will have spent as much as a MBP14 but have a more powerful machine at the end of its lifecycle.
And other feedback from video folks would be greatly appreciated.
@John_M_Flores I have only been using an i7 11th Gen, which is slower. I haven’t had any issues with Davinci Resolve but I do recommend 32 GB of ram (I used 16 GB for a while and I just closed everything besides Davinci Resolve). Also, if you are using Windows 11 do not leave Davinci Resolve open if you want the laptop to go to sleep, DR just drains the battery
Seems like the Macbook Pro don’t suffer as much thermal throttle as the regular Macbook (105 degrees), but I would not put any money into it, given Apple’s history.
If anything, the XPS 13 inch should have better cooling. You might argue otherwise, but it’s solely because them are cramming a 65W chip (max turbo, at least) inside a 13 inch chassis, and effectively every compromise is made to make as big a cooling solution as it possibly fit.
And realistically, I would imagine that choosing between a Mac and a PC would be more dependent on your workload, rather than actual hardware differences.
