A modular dock. As thunderbolt moves forward or connectors change entirely, the dock would change. I could keep the same case for years, with only occasional minor changes. Likewise a Framework approved and designed modular EGPU, or better yet the dock can slide into the EGPU to provide most of the ports for it. Buy the dock, need an EGPU later, buy the dock for the dock. Take along one or both depending on need. Make sure the EGPU comes with a nice folding/hidden carry handle for easy transport.
Better yet use laptop DGPU chips as a module for the dock. Ultra-compact graphics dock. Skip the handle, full sized graphics card, and SFX power supply, or better yet make both to fill both needs, and make both EGPU modules compatible with the same dock.
Well, since Fairphone doesn’t sell in the US and uses kinda outdated parts, there is an opportunity to create a Pixel competitor. Software is the real challenge. Linux on mobile is essentially dead which makes me sad. The only projects worth talking about in that arena are Pinephone and Librem 5 and the Librem 5 is essentially vaporware (I know some have been delivered…but long after the originally delivery date). I’d kill for something comparable to a Pixel but degoogled and Linux friendly. Doubt it’s feasible tho.
Printers have been mentioned before and for good reason. A router that is linux friendly, repairable and upgradable would be much more possible. It plays to your strengths making mainboards, similarly allows for mainboard upgrades in a given chassis and would be an instant buy from me.
Not something that can be really “upgraded” but a decent “non-smart” tv would be cool
Above all however, do not neglect your core product to branch into other product categories. This is one of the things that Purism drew criticism for.
I remember considering to support it but seeing how the hardware performance and software features being so subpar, and I remember it was heavier. I decided to give it a pass.
Not to knock on that 3d printed project, but a FrameTab which actually uses the touch-capable bits on the Mainboard eDP connector (and in turn gives the Framework Laptop an option to have a touchscreen) would be nice.
Speaking of, securing more options for the Framework Laptop over time would be nice - matte screens, AMD processors, ARM?, so on; the various things asked for - would be nice.
I wouldn’t be opposed to Framework “Accessories” - ie, things in the typical “desktop” mold reborn as modular components like the Laptop; monitors, speakers, mice, keyboards (honestly, an adapter that turns the Input Cover into a standalone wireless USB keyboard seems so patently obvious I’m surprised it doesn’t exist already). Ways to reuse parts of the Framework Laptop in the mold of these various parts would also help for that - the aforementioned Input Cover USB Keyboard, an external monitor that uses that DP-to-eDP adapter you all found on this thread orderable through Framework rather than Aliexpress, so on.
Ways to alter and “Swiss Army knife” the laptop - people have asked for a “ruggedized” case or asked for slip-cases and other things - things often put out by third-parties for Macbooks and other laptops - why can’t Framework put out first-party ones? One of the most surprising things about the Merch section is there isn’t a Framework Laptop Carry Case, Framework Laptop Carry Bag, and Framework Backpack up there - hell, you have investment from Linus Sebastian, maybe call him and see if you can’t brand his Backpack as your own, split the sales or something. On the topic of merch, Framework branded mousepad?
This is just from “vibing” with the community forums here on what could be done.
I’m going to double back and double post 'cause editing doesn’t ping properly - but if we find more such Aliexpress boards like the one listed maybe setting up a way to order said boards through Framework rather than Aliexpress would be an idea? I know we’re not so much “redefining” computer electronics there as expanding what can be done with the computer electronics you’re already “redefining” but come on - what’s the point of modularity if the only “modules” are the ones in the standard config? Can you imagine if they only put out one Technic set?
This might be a bit funny considering who @nrp is, but I think the time is actually pretty ripe for an open/modular XR headset.
The industry is dominated by a few giant companies that are only interested in building walled gardens (Meta, Bytedance, and soon Apple) with completely monolithic consumer products, and while there are some small companies like Lynx, Simula, Shiftall showing just how far one can get with tiny teams doing cool stuff, it seems like none of them are designing with upgradability or customizability in mind.
So much study has been done on how faces vary, and how to make comfortable facial interfaces for different facial structures, but no one offers customizability or swappability of the frame or facial interfaces
There are lots of options for optics/displays, but it seems a bit weird that you can’t swap them out (I mean, even if you had to do the entire visor unit that’d be ok, but as we move towards more goggle-like form like the Shiftall MeganeX it seems even weirder no one’s doing this) - some people want FOV for immersion, and some want PPD for working with text. There’s a huge stream of new displays/optics at different price points but it seems like as a consumer you just don’t get any choice in the matter.
Basic stuff like wired/wireless tethering, or being able to upgrade AIO compute all seems like a gimme
Lots of headsets already designed for swapping in lighthouse tracking support, so seems like making positional tracking (and hand, eye, face tracking) modular all makes sense
I know there are probably some tough questions on software, but it seems like OpenXR support is good enough for a lot of basic compatibility, and WebXR and other alternatives (like all the Monado related stuff) are all making some huge leaps an bounds recently.
Unlike printers, smartphones, etc, XR headsets are going to be a huge growth market this decade, and are also going to have huge upgrade cycles since the tech is advancing so quickly. It’d be great to have something upgradable, especially since so much of these HMDs should be reusable, but instead the headsets basically become e-waste/heirlooms come the next generation.
Sorry, I was brain-dumping on the Official Discord and figure I should preserve it for future reference:
SteveHeist: Part of the suggestion is bringing all those various bits and pieces “into” Framework - they’re currently scattered about the forums and (relatively) hard to find in a spur-of-the-moment thing. I know they’ve mentioned “The Marketplace will be open to third parties SoonTM” but the sooner the better.
[6:33 PM]SteveHeist: Given other things - alternate keyboard options, for example - that’s not necessarily true.
[6:33 PM]SteveHeist: If you buy a Framework and decide you like that clear Keyboard later… what’re you supposed to do with the other keyboard?
[6:36 PM]SteveHeist: Building out from there also allows Framework to build outwardly “organically” - make an External Monitor & it requires a Display Adapter Module… now you have a Display Adapter Module to start prototyping bigger external displays and oops you made a Monitor.
[6:40 PM]SteveHeist: Put some Speakers together and make a housing that puts the Speakers in the Monitor - perhaps connected by an internal cable - oops, we’ve made a TV. Or put the Speakers in a single casing and make a Soundbar. Build the Keyboard and you can then build different Input Covers that use different board sizes - add a ten key, a full desktop board with “proper” arrow keys / INS/DEL/HOME/END/PGUP/PGDWN on it, and both… and then users can “backport” those keyboards to the Framework into a bigger Bottom Cover (or maybe the USB Keyboard Bottom Cover module has a Mainboard cutout to allow CJ64 antics?) and all of a sudden you’ve made different size laptops, which can be paired with internally connected Display options that we oops’d into discovering bigger External Display options and now 15" laptop. So on and so forth.
[6:42 PM]SteveHeist: An ARM laptop option could turn into the FramePhone if done right - putting the processor itself on a Compute Module-type connector board rather than soldered to the Mainboard, for example - but even then you could possibly adapt the Compute Module format to x86_64 and “accidentally” reinvent socketed laptops… but with a single Framework socket.
[6:44 PM]SteveHeist: Pair the development of an ARM laptop option with development of touchscreen laptop options and you could break into FrameTablet (FrameTab?) and then shrink the FrameTab and add a SIM card option and FramePhone. Then the SIM card could possibly be backported depending on implementation all the way to a SIM card Expansion Card for the laptops
[6:46 PM]SteveHeist: Obviously the various things I’m pitching here are YEARS of R&D. But come on - if Apple can make an ecosystem out of unrepairable components, why can’t Framework try to make one of interrepairable parts?
…thinking about it, this could even pair into the HMD - which I DO think is a good idea.
Thunderbolt dock would be great, seems relatively easy (as opposed to printers and phones) to create (not that I have any experience).
Personally I think laptop is the best product in the tech space to modularize though, and it has a large market share, so building on the existing product is best!
Modular monitor? Just switchable panels, fits with the laptop panel? Maybe easily combine multiple laptop monitors since the bezel of the laptop monitor is relatively thin, so it’d be pretty seemless.
Personally, I don’t have a printer anymore. When I need to print or scan something, I go to a printing shop near my house. But I assume some people, companies, or public sectors want the repairable printer. I suppose that a good thing is a relatively low operational or maintenance cost than the Laptop or mobile phone. Perhaps you don’t need to work to update and release new mainboards or OS on the device. I don’t think this device needs strict portability. That’s good to design a repairable device.
Mobile Phone
There are repairable phones that the company says it is repairable at least on their website: Fairphone, PinePhone, Shift Phone. But I suppose there is still a big opportunity in the Americas and Asia markets. I don’t know if these devices have a community-driven hardware ecosystem.
Fairphone: it’s still not good enough for upgradability and repairability.
PinePhone: It’s not easy to see the repairable parts on the PinePhone website.
One of my friends is using Graphene OS on a Google Pixel Phone. While I am using Android OS with my current Fairphone 3, perhaps I may want to buy another phone to install a Linux-based OS just for fun.
Tablet
Personally, I want to see a repairable tablet more than a Phone. But I suppose the market size is less than the Phone, while the tablet devices are not repairable.
The best Ideas that I can come up with are:
Expanding upon the laptop
AMD processor options
– Suites a more multicore focused workload (or whatever amd’s processors are better suited for)
– not sure now but their integrated graphics, I have heard have been better than intel’s most of the time
Arm Processor options
– Some people just need as much battery life as possible
– Arm is gaining LOTS of relevance and recent times
Something like QMK for the keyboard/input cover (not sure if this already exists)
– Always nice to customise your keyboard’s behavior
– If there is ever a problem with the microcontroller for the input cover it would be much easier to work around
Now that AMD has finally switched off of Vega and into RDNA-based graphics, yes, AMD is better than Intel in this regard. Intel had finally caught up in the iGPU dept with Tiger Lake and upcoming Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake should bring huge gains in this area as well. But for now, AMD is best.
I’m going to reiterate a couple of ideas.
For the above option, my eg200 has a separate board for the thunderbolt controller, it would be most excellent if I could just swap out that little board and upgrade from TB3 to TB5 with little effort.
Similarly mentioned would be a dock with expansion card slots to change out the expansion needed for the dock as user needs change. This would be best released when TB5 launches as that will actually have the bandwidth to accommodate simultaneous use of all that expansion.
All these options have something in common, they build upon the work already done. There isn’t anything really stopping me from taking the existing main board and turning every expansion slot into an Ethernet expansion, thus turning it into a router or switch. It’s just software support that I might run into issues.
Turning the current input cover into a keyboard would require a new chassis but R&D should be comparatively small to a printer or other completely new product category.
The best path forward is one that requires the least amount of R&D and turns old obsolete parts into new products fit for service. An older mainboard might be too slow to be fit for use as a computer…but it would be very serviceable as networking equipment after a BIOS flash to lock it into a lower power state.
Old displays and input covers can be remade into monitors and keyboards. These are the true paths towards reducing waste. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
After that low-hanging fruit is plucked, move into other product categories ripe for revolution like printers, phones, and tablets. At that point, there should be so much momentum behind the company that those products will merely be an extension of an ecosystem. Look at Apple, they started with just desktops, then laptops, phones and tablets. Let us walk before we run. Really I think we need to see more investment in software development, opening things up, like coreboot, so the community can start contributing on the software front.
An other obvious answer is phone. It generates a lot of ewaste every 3 years.
I am writting now from a fairphone 4. Its pretty good.
Also Other initiatives in the field cannot hurt.
The laws in Europe on right to repair have moced the industry in a good direction. Like iphone 13 seems now much more repairable.
Teaming up with fairphone or learning from their later iteration and make a framephone
My dream phonee would come with a Risc V cpu. Its moving fast, but I guess risc V needs two more uears to mature into something that can become a daily driver. It will be maintain for 10 years on the software side. Fairephone managed 7 years and gave up with the fp 2. Lets push it further.
Before moving to another market, I would go for easy wins. For example modifications of the current framework to reach new market. Chromebook was a clever move. Having a modified framework woth touch screen, mate screen, Oled screen…if each version increase the sales by a 10%while taking minimum risk thats great. Then the 15incher with a gpu.
Like others have said, modern printers are terrible, and not necessarily because of technical limitations. Nowadays every printer will try to force or trick you into an online account, a subscription or it’ll just plain break. A lot of people realize this too, so a printer should be an easy sell to many consumers.
Pros
I think making a good printer is much easier than ideas like modular phones or earbuds, and has a broader market than modular routers or other enthusiast-targeted equipment.
Cons
Of course, the market for printers isn’t going to grow massively, and by not employing the same tactics as the competition (like forced online accounts, subscriptions and frequent replacements), framework might end up needing to charge more upfront.
TLDR: I would love to see a framework printer, but I’m uncertain if it’d be a good business decision.
Dock or eGPU or similar accessories
A Dock that supports expansion cards would be really cool. There are already great eGPU cases, but AFAIK none of them can have their boards upgraded for newer thunderbolt standards. You could of course also combine the Dock with the eGPU or do a separate Dock and just give the eGPU some bays for expansion cards as well.
Pros
This would be an opportunity to build off of what framework already offers, making for an easier entry. It would also make existing expansion cards more useful independently from the framework laptop, since they are awkward to use otherwise due to their shape.
Since the framework laptop doesn’t have a dedicated GPU, there is demand for eGPUs.
Cons
There may not be enough demand, or it may be hard to match the pricing of the competition. But it’s a solid idea that should be considered.
More options for the framework laptop
The laptop is currently framework’s main product, and there are still interesting features which are unavailable. Framework should continue to add more options over time, some ideas:
touchscreen
OLED display
backlit keyboard
key colors to match chassis (I prefer that look personally)
Lots of exciting ideas are also about what to do with older parts of the laptop. For example, you could make a set to turn an old laptop display into a HDMI monitor!
For me, the top desire would be an android phone. But it seems to be a very difficult market. Mobile processors come with the huge problem of not being supported by the manufacturer for long enough and not being open enough that they can have continued support without the manufacturer’s help. I wouldn’t want Framework to tackle the market before there is a way to succeed, low risk of hurting the company.
Beyond that, I’d love an open mouse. Open source firmware. A connector on the board to expose i2c and any extra io pins the microprocessor has. Available files to print a couple different size shells. That way people on the marketplace could create shells and daughter boards with any arrangement of extra buttons or gamer bling they wish. RGB leds, haptic feedback, even an oled display could be added on.
@nrp, thanks for asking. Lots of great ideas in this thread already. Maybe convert it to a poll, with write in answers, to make the “me too” reply volume a little less.
Already said that I would absolutely buy if made and well done:
modular upgradeable but still reasonably water resistant mobile phone (crowded segment but OMG needs an evolution towards openness and transparent security!)
range of BT headsets ( modular over the ear + gamer mic and
aviation headset addons, to on the ear, to behind the neck, to true wireless )
Ones I have not seen mentioned in this thread yet (possibly due to my speed reading):
Laser projectors in pico (pocketable size), micro (quarter backpack size), and full (shoebox sized or so). I have a Philips PPX620 which is self destructing due to heat and battery manufacturing defect after ~3 years in use. Awesome unit and I love it but the “we’ll support it for its lifetime!” to “developers are all on other products” story change happened way too fast. Each unit capable of switching between ultra-short throw to normal long throw would be amazing.
Modular prosumer home router and wireless AP. Modules supporting LoRaWAN, Tri-band Wifi, and CBRS LTE/5G small cell would be awesome. The “I share internet-only guest access to others in exchange for free automagic guest internet-only roaming onto everyone else’s router” model is something I really would love to see done right. See FreedomFi, Helium, and Pollen projects for some attempts at this, but there’s huge downsides in how they are going about it, especially on the upfront equipment costs and hassle to setup, payments in new crypto tokens that are a huge gamble for adopters, etc.
Modular air quality monitors for indoor and outdoor use, and weather stations (been done already but definitely could be done better).
Home energy monitoring and control. Something between the high dollar options like Savant (which are slick but try to lock you into their ecosystem) and Iotawatt (open but not slick and not nearly as capable, especially in active control). IEEE 2030.5 load shedding, pricing signalling, charge now, etc compatibility as more utilities start to leverage that
Solar & home scale wind → EV bidirectional charging + Fixed battery storage <-> Home <-> Grid (optional). Now that ISO 15118-20 is published, these products are going to appear on the market quickly, but price, openness, interoperability are serious trade offs with all but one combo that I have found. I know what state of the art is in this industry and honestly the current crop of COTS products could easily be undercut by Framework.
3d printers, metal SLS, laser engravers, cnc cutting, etc. Again, its been done and there are some cheap options in this space, but the learning curve, especially for doing your own upgrades, is steep. I have an idea for this market that has never been done to my knowledge that would blow away everything on the market, and have been trying to find the right partner to dev it with.
Farm, garden, and landscape bot kits
Animal feeding and monitoring kits (from domestic pets, to domestic livestock, to commercial livestock)
Another idea I have not seen in production yet, so I cannot publish here it if it turns out it is patent-able
Drones, both quadricopter and flying wing style. Photogrammetry and lasergrammetry modules are especially needed for prosumer surveying, vegetation monitoring, etc. Costs on those COTS are astronomical. DIY is possible but tons of wrinkles in the rug from my research so far. A middle ground, modular kit set would be amazing.
e-bike drive, battery, charging ecosystems need slicking up and cost cutting. I have ideas.
I don’t suppose you all are looking to hire an initial product dev specialist to identify pain points for electronics consumers and do initial spec’ing on new projects are you? Puts hand up if you are Lol
