hello, I want to buy a new Framework 13 with a fixed budget. AMD is cheaper so if chose it I can get more memory and faster storage. I need a 2.8K display and the best WiFi. Long battery life would be useful but less important than the two other criteria. I read on the forum that some people criticize the WiFi card supplied with the AMD model. Is this still an issue? I will install Ubuntu and mainly use the laptop to run Firefox, terraform, Helm and kubectl (kubernetes client). Which would you recommend Intel Core Ultra Series 1 or AMD Ryzen 7040 Series for my use case?
It is interesting that there is a “compare” action between the Intel CPUs and between the AMD CPUs but no comparison page to compare Intel and AMD.
My comparison between AMD and Intel is as follows.
AMD has more consistant performance across all cores of the processors, because it isn’t trying to use E-Cores, P-Cores, etc. If you want the best over all performance, go with AMD. For your use case, there won’t be too much difference between the Ryzen 5 or 7, so I’d go with the Ryzen 5 7640U between the two to save money.
Intel tries to use P-Cores (performance cores) and E-Cores (efficiency cores) so your performance across all cores of the processor will be less consistant. However, unless something has changed for BIOS, you can disable turbo boost on Intel CPU’s, which might be valuable to you if you want to avoid the processor running hotter an using more power. You could alternatively use tools under Linux to achieve similar effects with AMD CPU’s.
If wifi is still an issue (my 6GHZ connection occasionally cuts out and reconnects quickly under Windows), you can always replace the wifi card with something more stable. Or use Ethernet if your use case allows for it.
The Intel 13th gen I5 and the AMD 7640U mainboards on the Framework market place are the same price, so you wouldn’t be saving any money there, but you would probably get better performance from the AMD mainboard over the Intel one. Whether or not you would notice it in your use case, I have no idea.
I have no actual benchmark information, but I do have experience with the AMD Ryzen 5 7640U as I own a Framework 13 in that configuration, though my experience is under windows, and under very light duty.
As far as the Intel Ultra 1 series goes, I have read that the AMD Ryzen 5 7640U is more performant than the Ultra 5 125H. Still with the E-Core P-Core inconsistancy issues however.
There tends to be a performance improvement in multicore applications when every core of the CPU is used at the same time, and every core is capable of the same clock speed. Also, and this might just be specific to myself, if a system using one of these newer Intel CPU’s is idle and you try and use it, there is a slight lag in response time initially for about a second or so before the system wakes up from its low power state.
It all depends on your use cases and applications for your system, and perhaps your preferences as to whether you prefer AMD or Intel. I personally prefer AMD, because I want consistant performance at all times and I don’t like my system switching from a lower power mode into a higher power mode that I can notice, and I do notice on an Intel CPU with the E-Core P-Core layout.
Take this with a grain of salt, but in my experience on these forums I would break it down as follows:
AMD has the performance and power efficiency angle, BUT it also has the most bugs.
Intel seems more stable, seems to be better supported under Linux (read less bugs). I am saying this fully recognizing that AMD is in love with Linux and is working hard to enable it on their chipsets. However, the amount of bugs I see on this forum are predominantly from AMD systems. Take that as you will.
Intel also has Thunderbolt 4 across all ports. AMD is a bag of mixed.
I personally only have Intel boards (11th, 12th, and 13th gen mainboards), BUT my desktop is AMD based. I like what AMD is doing. I personally am just waiting for the software stack with AMD to get a little more solid.
I have been using AMD processors almost exclusively for the past 35 years. I used Windows up until 1997 when I switched to Linux and have never looked back. I have occasionally helped friends using Windows up to Windows 11 running on PCs with AMD cpus. Very few of the people I’ve helped have been playing Windows games so I don’t have much experience with playing games on AMD cpus.
I can say that AMD cpus work very well with Linux. There were a number BIOS teething problems with early AMD Ryzen cpus but they seem to have been largely ironed out. I support quite a few people running openSUSE Slowroll on desktop PCs with AMD Ryzen cpus and a number of people running openSUSE Slowroll on AMD Framework 13” and 16” notebooks and Linux has been running very well on the AMD Frameworks. Slowroll has very recent kernels and drivers so the Framework models are well supported by Slowroll.
I’ve built many AMD based desktop systems mostly running openSUSE Slowroll with a very few Windows systems. I spend very little time supporting the Linux computers because there are very few problems with them.
I watch the many Intel security flaws and various other Intel power and other problems from a distance and the problems that people have with Windows from a distance. All I can say is that from my experience and the experience of the people I support, running Linux on AMD based computers is quite reliable and dependable with very little drama. For general purpose computing with the fewest problems and lowest costs, the combination of AMD processors and Linux seems like the best combination by far.
Is that still the case with new intel stuff? Feels like the new core ultra stuff got a ton of issues too.
That is indeed probably the biggest advantage, though amds usb4 + and asmedia egpu enclosure does give a lot more bandwidth than intels tb4 stuff if you are going for an egpu.
I have run the AX210, BE200 from Intel, as well as the Mediatek MT7921K (RZ608) and MT7925 (RZ7??) that are rebranded as AMD RZ series WiFi cards.
All on Intel 11th and/or 13th Gen i5 hosts, Arch Linux OS, though randomly with Fedora and Ubuntu when I was troubleshooting some graphics issues.
There’s not that much difference between any of them when tested against a TPLink BE9300 access point. Intel gives slightly faster total throughput, maybe 10% more, but has some nasty Bluetooth bugs recently. The mediatek chips are far better for making an access point, though. The Wi-Fi 7 cards are doing MLO as “Enhanced Multi Link Single Radio (EMSLR)”, so no throughput increase or latency cut that I can find, though handover between bands is seamless.
The included Framework WiFi/BT antenna in the FW13 series is okay, but not amazing. Very sensitive to the orientation of the lid vs the access point. 20 degree change in orientation can nearly double thoughput…
Lol you may be running into the same issue I had with the 970 evo, where hotplugging usb4 didn’t work on linux, if you boot with it plugged in it probably works and usb fall back probably does too.
Then again putting a pcie3 ssd in an asm usb4 enclosure is kind of a waste anyway XD
i have used the amd fw13 with the default wifi for the past 10ish months and I have only had one instance of the wifi card not being recognised by the computer. It has worked fine all other times.
crap my other non-samsung SSD is in another computer. I remembered using one task can only reach ~2GBps, but multiple can get to ~3.5GBps. maybe it’s somehow like the 40Gbase-SR4, one task can only occupy one lane.
I have the AMD 7840, I swapped out the wifi card with an Intel AX210 due to the constant cutouts.
Still happens with the Intel card, albeit less frequently. Still need to reboot every few suspends.
I suspect some firmware/BIOS bug.
Event log has errors similar to this:
Miniport Microsoft Wi-Fi Direct Virtual Adapter #4, {e6aba1b8-5e0f-4e52-b585-c56f7e1b7ce6}, had event Fatal error: The miniport has failed a power transition to operational power
The bluetooth hasn’t failed though that I’ve noticed, compared to the MediaTek one, this error stopped appearing once I swapped cards:
The local Bluetooth adapter has failed in an undetermined manner and will not be used. The driver has been unloaded.