Yuck, I Sorta Want a Surface Pro, W/Snapdragon

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These days, it’s almost impossible to feel clean while supporting most big companies. So many of them do things I fundamentally disagree with. Microsoft is…let’s just say, very far from the exception, lol.

That’s why I’m a bit annoyed to admit to myself that I really want a Surface Pro 11 with a Snapdragon processor. High-res, color calibrated touch screen with pen support? Easily replaceable NVMe drive? Increased battery life due to the Snapdragon processor (at least when doing light tasks)? Surprising repairability for a modern tablet with parts availability? Yes, please!

Anyone else liking a lot of what the new Surface Pro has to offer?

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I quite like my Surface Pro 8. I’ve just received my FW13 AMD though. Linux is nice on this! The Surface Pro require cutting adhesive and lifting the screen to get inside. Not very easy or fun. They storage has been accessible for few generations though. The Thinkpad X12 detachable OK the other hand is easily repaired via screws on the back case and then the screen lifts out. I’ve owned gen 1 and it’s a breeze to work on and the same format as the Surface Pro tablets. Also supports Linux. I haven’t seen gen 2 in person yet. The new chips do seem nice in that they have proper suspend and better effciency. Tablets are my favorite due to never having a hot keyboard and are very flexible with touchscreen and pen input.

I wouldn’t want to guinea pig arm right now on my main device.

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I think what you are describing is normal. Microsoft does make nice devices. The Surface line was a great design and reimaging of what the tablet could be. I argue it is still the tablets ultimate form. iOS is so terrible.

But ARM is just not there, IMHO, on Windows. I also don’t see the main draw. I get almost x86 like performance and a lot of battery life. But the 5-8 hours I’m getting already is enough for me. I would prefer to have more processing power.

Framework keeps having the success that they are having and it will force more companies to follow their lead. So hopefuly, in the future, the Surface line will be even more like the Framework 13 / 16.

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I’m sure there are years of growing pains to come with ARM on Windows. Heck, Windows seems to have constant growing pains in general. But Linux has its share of challenges and incompatibilities in general too, and I used it for the first time ever on my FW 13 and am now daily driving Fedora 40. I could tolerate a little jank for a while, if need be.

As for Microsoft, I’m not sure I like the haste to jump on “AI,” to the point of integrating it into the OS. It’s basically a buzzword right now, and nobody wants to be seen as last to the party or be left behind. But a lot of people are also turned off by it. So make it an app or something for now. Wait until it’s a little more mature before integrating it into the OS! Just one man’s opinion.

I don’t like Windows in general right now. I’ve used Windows for 30+ years. I’m the kind of person who was annoyed at certain changes almost every step of the way. But I also wasn’t nearly as bothered as some were at a lot of stuff. I didn’t love Vista, but I didn’t have any major issues. I strongly disliked much about Windows 8, but I just learned how to make it work for me, and once 8.1 came out and more configuration options were released, I had no problems with it at all. Some of the really bothersome stuff for me, personally, came with Windows 10, and 11 seems to crank all of that stuff up to…11.

Mandatory account sign in? No thanks. Sure, there are ways around it (which they are trying to stop), but the fact that they try to force you at all is annoying. Ads everywhere is a bigger problem. I have come to terms with the fact that the internet is mostly just one, giant ad. But when I close my browser and use an off-line program to get something done, I shouldn’t have to deal with ads from my OS! And dang-it, STOP trying to force me to use your preferred apps! Stop re-installing them after updates! Stop re-adding taskbar shortcuts to them! Stop making me tell you no over and over. And stop “simplifying” things in ways that just end up hiding necessary options and settings.

Granted, with all of that said (and I’m sure there’s plenty more that could be said), I still can and do use Windows 11 every day at work, and once in a while on my personal computer for certain software. Like Vista and 8 before, actual day to day use of Windows 11 for me is fine. I just wish the overall direction of the changes wasn’t towards things that irk me.

I had one of the first, Surface Pro tablets, around 11 years ago (wow, I’m getting old). I liked it a lot. It was my “daily driver” machine, right up until I dropped it on a tile floor. That was a sad day. It was the only device (including smart phones), that I’ve ever dropped or damaged in such a way that it was genuinely ruined. Technically, it still “worked,” but the screen cracked, and the digitizer was messed up, so there were phantom clicks and stuff all over the screen. To the point that it was completely unusable. At that point, it wasn’t worth trying to get it repaired.

Anyway, that’s enough rambling. For now, lol.

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Oof, I just realized it doesn’t have a headphone jack. That makes it all but a complete non-starter. I have to use headphones almost exclusively with my devices, and wireless headphones/earbuds are really convenient…until they are dead when you need them. Or until they just outright die and cannot be easily repaired. I find it silly to give up the cheap simplicity of being able to plug in wired headphones and have decent quality, non-delayed, non-battery requiring audio that isn’t competing with or bothering those around me. Stop removing the headphone jack from things!

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Hi @BigT,

There is something to be said for a device with a long battery life. They are at the end of the day a luxury though. The easiest (though not nearly as convenient) solution to getting almost unlimited battery life is battery packs with PD support. There are a number of quality (read: Safer) external battery packs available that were not as prevalent even 5 years ago. Most of these situations where you would need 12-16 hours of use in a day are scarce with the exception of some outliers/professions.

One of the things I secretly hope is developed for Framework or produced by an enthusiast is a case to hold the FW13 battery pack. (Then later the FW16 battery pack in the next generation!)

Qualcomm has made some large strides in bringing RISC processors to the forefront. It still has a long way to go before it is truly adapted to perform on the same level as Intel/AMD processors though.

As for the need for a headphone jack, would a USB-C headphone jack do the same for you? It would still allow headphones to be hardwired. Granted it is another little adapter instead of plugging directly in; though that is just like what Framework’s basic design of their expansion cards is about though.

Headphone jacks are not just as popular anymore and have gone by the wayside. Still being able to use a USBC-Headphone adapter would still allow hard wired headphone use and the ability of the other benefits gleaned from a Microsoft Surface vs. a traditional laptop like Framework.

Sometimes the best tool (Surface Pro) is the one that works with the existing tools (Framework Laptop) relied on and used everyday. There is a clear use for tablets and laptops. Having one try to be the other just has not worked as well as having the best of either type. There always seems to be too many sacrifices to make the goldilocks of portable devices. :grinning:

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I realize that it’s sort of a nitpick to say I don’t want to deal with a dongle/adapter to use wired headphones. But when it comes to an expensive device that I don’t really “need,” nitpicks are often going to make or break a decision for me, lol. Since I use headphones virtually all the time with my mobile devices, needing an adapter means having that adapter hanging off the side most of the time. And it’s yet another thing I have to ensure I have with me when I travel, etc. Granted, it’s less of a complete deal breaker than it would be with something like an iPad, that literally only has one port, so you have to choose between charging or headphones, or use a splitter adapter, etc. At least the Surface pro has a couple USB-C ports, so I could use an adapter and not block the charging port, as well as still having a USB-C port free.

Everyone has their biases, and not having a headphone jack on a mobile device like a tablet is one of those things that just feels wrong to me.

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Oh my, I agree 100%, all my interest vanished in an instant.

What is this trend with removing the headphone jack…

I also encountered this when looking for an Android tablet. There’s literally a single model of tablet in existence which both has an OLED screen and a headphone jack (and it runs an unsupported version of Android today).

Bluetooth barely works if you have two devices, and when you add more than two, some gaming consoles and maybe some other gadget (Playdate, anyone?), suddenly the 25€ pair of wired headphones with a mic is the most versatile option.

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Ugh, yes! I do have some bluetooth headphones, because they can be very convenient at times. Until they are automatically connecting to the wrong device, failing to connect for unknown reasons, connecting for media but not calls (on a phone), or vice-versa, etc. And don’t even get me started on the frustratingly unreliable touch controls on many wireless earbuds/headphones. “Oh, you wanted to pause that audiobook? Let me skip to the next chapter for you.”

Again, that’s all stuff I can absolutely deal with. But I find I generally end up using wired headphones/earbuds whenever possible. And it feels a little bit too convenient (for the companies and their shareholders) that as each company develops and starts selling their own, wireless earbuds, they suddenly can no longer be bothered to put headphone jacks on their devices.

Maybe I am one of the few headphone jack holdouts. Maybe the overall market has moved away from caring about headphone jacks. Companies have to make devices for the overall market, not for the niche. Fine. I accept that. Just so long as you don’t try to get me to accept that I should stop wanting a headphone jack. Never! Lol.

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Yep. People who say that Bluetooth is the future, or that you should just carry a USB-C dongle, can’t really answer why in almost 10 years since iPhone 7 came out, it still doesn’t feel like future. And it’s still more convenient to use wired headphones, provided you cared to get a phone with one.

But yeah, sorry to hijack your thread a bit. Just feels good to know I’m not the only person perceiving the reality like this. There’s probably a subreddit for this, actually, lemme go look it up…

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A headphone jack is one of those things that can often make or break a device for me. But, at this point, a tablet would be a second device for me, not the “daily driver” (I have my FW 13 for that). So I could probably live without a headphone jack. But it does limit the versatility for me a bit. Combine that with jank/incompatibility that is sure to be present on Windows ARM for at least a good while, and (thankfully, lol) my “want” for one is cooling a bit.

I still like a lot about it. Not much interest in this thread, which I suppose makes sense, as it’s about hardware other than Framework hardware, on the Framework forums. But they don’t make a tablet yet, so…

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Not having headphone jack is annoying but I often leave apple 3.5mm usb-c dongles attached to my headphones these days. I can plug them into most devices and it always sounds the same. My SP8 has a headphone jack though but I usually don’t have both usb-c ports being used at once so I just use the dongle anyway. It is definitely an anti feature to remove it.

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It’s definitely something I could deal with. For a daily use device, my FW 13 isn’t perfect either. No device is perfect. It’s just one of those silly things that probably bothers me more than it should.

Another thing that bothers me is that if I got one, I’d probably want the flex keyboard and the pen, which is super expensive, lol. Likely not in the cards for me. Still a cool device.

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As it was written in the Harry Potter book, “You know headmaster. I disagree with Albus on many things. But you got to admit…he’s got style”
Yes, Microsoft is far from what I want to side with EVER but…
That touch screen, man! It changes the way you use your Windows laptop. Imagine wanting to explain something during a Zoom meeting & you just open that whitebooard & draw on the screen to simply explain a point. Easy peasy.
Now imagine having this with a Framework. Woah!
& yes…that Snapdragon battery life…Woah woah woah!

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This seems like a stupid reason to bump this thread, but I’m going to complain a bit more about the dropping of the headphone jack, lol.

Audio delay! Why does Windows struggle with it? I can use wireless earbuds with my phone the delay is tolerable, but it’s not zero. Wired headphones are definitely better. But when I connect wireless headphones to a Windows computer and fire up YouTube or a streaming service the audio is frustratingly out of sync.

How are people okay with this! Stop removing the headphone jack!

Edit: I’m sure there are settings tweaks and driver updates and better headphones that support better codecs, etc., etc., and the delay could be reduced. But I can take a cheap pair of wired earbuds and plug them into a headphone jack and they just work and have zero delay.

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What I find with Bluetooth delay on my Android phone is that it actually delays the video playback a little to match the audio delay.

It almost seems to me like there’s some synchronisation logic where it starts playing audio, waits for a sync and then starts playing video as well just in time to catch up with audio. Sometimes this malfunctions and you get a delay. Same behavior on a Windows laptop I used with a Bluetooth speaker.

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Interesting. In my experience with Windows, it seems to depend on the headphones. Some are far better than others. But it’s not always the ones you’d expect that don’t have a delay, vs. the ones that do. It’s just inconsistent, and that’s annoying. First-world problem, for sure. It’s nothing I can’t deal with. It’s just yet another reason why it annoys me that even laptops and tablets are getting rid of the jack, not just phones.

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