11th Gen Laptop with weird wake up issues - Buyers beware

[Sumit]

@lbkNhubert

I have one framework that I use daily and another family machine that is used rarely. I keep the rarely used machine plugged in but with a charge limit set in the bios. That allows it to be grab and go for me. I understand that for various reasons one may not wish to or be able to leave the laptop plugged in, but that’s what has worked in my case.

So, “what works for you” is having two Framework laptops! Thanks for that

[lbkNhubert]

Ha. I wish that it were used more heavily but the others in my family are Apple users whom I thus far have been unsuccessful at convincing even to try linux. So, the second machine is less used than I had hoped it would be. It does provide for me a convenient platform on which to try things out, but that wasn’t my intention when I bought it.

To be completely clear for anyone reading this thread (not looking at you @Sumit or you @Jason_Dagless, rather, noting it for anyone who skims through the thread quickly), the second machine is a “nice to have,” I don’t need it to be able to use the laptop. My use case typically has my primary machine on power most times, so I have avoided the RTC issues that others have encountered.

Be well.

[nmiles]

@Sumit

@nmiles have you been offered rtc battery/motherboard replacement? Has that helped?

I have not been offered a replacement battery or mainboard, though I may just link this thread with nrp’s response lol. I’m giving it a couple days after the latest mainboard reset I did per Framework support’s recommendation just to see how long it takes for the battery to die.

[Alexander_von_Gluck]

Ugh. My laptop just did this. Powered on 2 days ago, fully charged at 80%. Powered off.

Powered back on this afternoon. Laptop wouldn’t power on. Plugged into USB C power, laptop immediately came on. 78% battery

BIOS 3.10, ArchLinux

[Sumit]

@anon81945988

Giving such little detail leaves a lot of possibilites as to why it didn’t power on etc.

You are not helping! Please stop polluting the thread with your non-answers!

@anon81945988

did you check the volatge before and after you power of and on.

I mean seriously, why the bloody earth would a normal user check the RTC battery’s voltage before powering on their laptop! Just stop!

[Sumit]

@Alexander_von_Gluck

Powered back on this afternoon. Laptop wouldn’t power on. Plugged into USB C power, laptop immediately came on. 78% battery

Hi @Alexander_von_Gluck how long have you had the laptop? Trying to guess if there is a co-relation with age and RTC battery life. I’ve been using it full on for the past three months. It has mostly stayed connected during this time.

@nmiles

I’m giving it a couple days after the latest mainboard reset I did per Framework support’s recommendation just to see how long it takes for the battery to die.

Thanks for the response. I take you’ve done motherboard reset before? How long are you having to leave it off power (disconnected from mains) to require a motherboard reset? I seem to have been lucky to not get to that stage yet.

[Sumit]

@anon81945988

You seem to be very upset, maybe I can help you understand better.

yes, I am!

@anon81945988

The ML 1220 has a minimum voltage to sustain some, to me, unknown cpu function else this hard reset is required ~ there is more info on that if you like.

During the hard reset access to the ML 1220 is possible and the voltage can be checked and if it is around 2.8 then it is likely not a fault of the battery but maybe a connection.

If the voltage is low and is then charged it is possible to assess if the battery is charge to at leats 3V. This would indicate it is charging so would be a step in understanding what is happening etc.

This is very useful but, OP already said he just reconnected to mains and it started up. Maybe you missed that? Happens.

@anon81945988

By the way I am dyslexic and often spell things baddly and miss words, so if you have a question as what I say irks you I am more than happy to help clear up any misunderstanding you find in my posts.

Not diagnosed but I have a fair few traits myself, not an issue.

I’ve read your inputs across threads and a lot of them are very good and informational. So thanks for that.

Apologies for the caustic remark, but at this moment, I am finding impossible to deal with any suggestion of “you are holding it wrong” (The great Jobs’ comment on iPhone 4 fiasco). There seem to be quite a few of those here.

Yes, I love the damn concept, I went all in on it. Now I feel terribly let down by it and telling me I am doing it wrong will not get a kind response!

Have a good one!

[Sumit]

@anon81945988

As the battery is supposed to last about 21 days let’s say it requires 1mAh a day or give a bit more 9hours a week.

Nice bit of deduction.

I’ve posted in my update at the top of the thread, the laptop is definitely getting charged more than that, but it fails eitherway. I am resigned to the fact that the battery is done it’s 100 charge cycles.

How do charge cycles get counted? If I have the RTC battery plugged in all the time, is it losing charge cycles? Or does it loose a cycle everytime I plug in. At that rate 100 cycles == 100 days approx, which is 3+ months. Lines up with my laptop’s life.

Let’s see if my ebay drop shipper delivers, if not, I’ll try smallbattery company. I did find them in my search but their website didn’t inspire confidence. Then again don’t judge a book by it’s cover eh!

[Second_Coming]

Having to have some degree of RTC battery charge level / usage tracking (mentally or otherwise) in order to use a laptop…facepalm…that’s just anxiety inducing on a whole different level in *modern electronics.

@amoun means well with his info…but seriously, this hardware usability issue is just out of whack.

Never had I thought that a laptop would have a power-up model like a car (RTC battery = car battery, main battery = gas tank).

At the end of the day, no amount of forum messages can fix this. …and I sound like a broken record.

[Sumit]

@Second_Coming

Never had I thought that a laptop would have a power-up model like a car (RTC battery = car battery, main battery = gas tank).

Interesting you bring up the car analogy. I’ve heard Teslas have a similar issue. They have a 12V battery that’s charged of mains only, so if you leave the car unplugged for more than n days, the 12V battery dies out and then you need a Tesla callout to ‘jump start’ your car.

Maybe we can put a positive spin on this, “Framework has built a Tesla among laptops”?

@Second_Coming

At the end of the day, no amount of forum messages can fix this. …and I sound like a broken record.

True, it can’t be fixed, but if I can get to a place of predictability I can truly work around it!

It is a sunken cost of being an early adopter I’ve to deal with (Looks at my Surface RT, Microsoft Band, bunch of Windows Phones, Amazon Fire tablets and a cruddy Windows tablet and slaps forehead, “when will you learn Sumit”)

[Second_Coming]

@Sumit

“Framework has built a Tesla among laptops”

LoL…reminds me of this:

‘Elon Musk, please help us’: Tesla owners start hunger strike over quality...

[Usernames]

This problem is exacerbated by the requirement of the RTC battery just to boot the machine.

I hope this can be changed for 11th gen and is not present on future boards.

[Josh_Cook]

I have never experienced this issue on my 11th gen unit, goes 2 weeks with no charge fine. I do always keep it on the most updated BIOS so that may help. It isn’t specifically an issue with FWs, just 11th gen.

[Usernames]

@anon81945988

Do you mean for the 12th gen, where it has been fixed. I’m pretty sure nore 11 gens will be manufactured ?

I’m talking about the requirement of a RTC battery with a charge for the system to boot.

I would like this requirement to be removed entirely. If the battery is dead/not present I want the systems to still be capable of booting and to have default BIOS settings.

I pointed this out because then people would only be dealing with a reset BIOS/RTC not an expensive paperweight and my systems ability to boot won’t be dependant on this tiny battery. What would happen if I broke my clip white doing a reset and couldn’t repair it? Dead board, terrible.

[Jason_Dagless]

At the end of the day you have two choices.

1. Sell it and get something else.

2. Keep it and get something else a couple or four years from now.

I guess you could wait and get a 13th gen board if they will fit but you may as well buy a different laptop by then.

[Sumit]

@anon81945988 @Usernames If I understand Nrp’s post correctly, they are two different subsystems. So possibly use different power rails. This could be dictated by the main Processor actually. So very unlikely it will be a software fix or a quick h/w hack for 11th gen. What was possible in the past may have been changed by Intel slowly over the years. We didn’t notice until we hit this bug.

I remember Raspberry Pi compute module (3 and below) base boards being complicated to design because they had multiple voltage level requirements. They simplified that in CM4 and now there is a flood of Raspberry Pi CM4 base boards in the market.

[Sumit]

So here is October 4, 2022 afternoon battery status. I am doing as instructed. 48 hours of charging is done. I’ll just follow my regular work schedule and unplug it at night. We’ll see how the system reacts tomorrow morning and subsequent mornings.

[Alexander_von_Gluck]

Ok. I traced down my specific situation.

I keep having issues with my framework laptop not powering on.

11th Gen Intel, i7-1165G7
BIOS 3.10
ArchLinux
80% battery limit configured in bios

• Try to turn laptop on. No response from power button. Power button LED off. No LED lights.
• Holding power button doesn’t help. Laptop refuses to power on.
• Plug laptop into USB C PD power. Keyboard lights up, power button lights up. Screen remains dark.
• After 30-60 seconds, laptop shuts off, then laptop powers on and functions as usual. Battery is 75%.
• Shutdown laptop via normal OS shutdown. Unplug USB C.
• Power laptop on. No problems.
• Power laptop off. No problems.
• Wait 12 hours or more with it powered off. The same problem above happens again.

Laptop holds a charge fine, otherwise functions normally.

I’ve contacted Framework support with the above, i’ll see what they say. It “feels” like the bios is resetting itself after plugging in the USB C power connector.

I’d just live with the above, but as a portable device its kinda a big fault. I’ve gotten stuck places with it non-functioning multiple times now without a power source available to “revive” it.

Has anyone seen these funky “won’t turn on” issues on 12th gen hardware?

[Second_Coming]

@Sumit

If I understand Nrp’s post correctly, they are two different subsystems. So possibly use different power rails. This could be dictated by the main Processor actually.

As an end-user…I’m going with “why would I [need to] care about this at the engineering level?”.

e.g. Wanting to use a blender doesn’t mean I need to know about the bevel profile of the blades.

Technical details are good…for details, if you can move forward to address an issue. Otherwise, if it’s a blocker…it doesn’t assist in anything.

@Sumit

So very unlikely it will be a software fix or a quick h/w hack for 11th gen.

Correct. This is quite literally a desktop replacement laptop…where it has strange requirement on plugged in time / duration…beyond the charge level of the main battery.

[Sumit]

@Alexander_von_Gluck

• Try to turn laptop on. No response from power button. Power button LED off. No LED lights.
• Holding power button doesn’t help. Laptop refuses to power on.
• Plug laptop into USB C PD power. Keyboard lights up, power button lights up. Screen remains dark.
• After 30-60 seconds, laptop shuts off, then laptop powers on and functions as usual. Battery is 75%.
• Shutdown laptop via normal OS shutdown. Unplug USB C.
• Power laptop on. No problems.
• Power laptop off. No problems.
• Wait 12 hours or more with it powered off. The same problem above happens again.

Thanks @Alexander_von_Gluck ! Sounds like your BIOS battery is in smiliar status to mine. We do seem to be running through the charge cycles of these batteries much faster than designed. Waiting for my battery replacement to arrive, will report back it that helps.