I saw a review of this laptop today, and I was highly impressed almost to the point of purchasing one on the spot.
However, when choosing a laptop, one of the most important things I look at are the keyboard layout. And while the current keyboard layout is… ok, I would much prefer arrow keys similar to the image below:
All four arrow keys half height
Page up / Page down in the corners
I’m not saying that my preference is ‘objectively better’, but I think that keyboard layout preference differ highly based on the specific user. As the mantra of this laptop appears to be ‘user replacement and customization’, are there any plans for alternative keyboard layouts?
The keyboard enthusiasts market is highly particular about their keyboard layouts, and you may be able to drive a large amount of traffic by exploring the option for multiple keyboard layout options… as well as looking into whether it’s possible to use mechanical keyboard switches in the chassis you’ve chosen.
That’s a really interesting idea that you’re throwing out, the idea of alternate physical keyboard layouts and even the possibility of mechanical keyboards. I am a huge fan of mechanical keyboards on the desktop, but never thought that it was even an option on a laptop. The MNT Reform (with props to @Manuel for introducing me to it over at Classic/old 7-row style keyboards) is a Framework-esque laptop that does indeed have a mechanical keyboard. They obviously go much further in some ways than Framework regarding openness / repair / upgradeability, and while I respect what they’ve done, I’m much more interested in the daily usability of the Framework vs. the Reform. But at least they’ve proven that it can be done, building a modular open mechanical keyboard for a laptop.
Personally, I prefer a dedicated row for home/end/page-up/page-down, but that’s my taste and I don’t see any space on the framework laptop, so there’s that.
Since I can’t share photos, here’s a link of a render (from Asus’s website).
Just wanted to second CatsforEveryone post about the dedicated row for home/end/page-up/page-down.
This is the driving factor in my decision to buy any specific laptop and severely limits my choices, given the few brands that offer this layout (e.g., Acer, HP, MSI).
Also chiming in as the keyboard layout is the primary thing preventing me from purchasing a framework laptop.
I am an IT professional and coder, I am constantly using text editors and terminals, and I need not only correctly placed PG UP + PG DOWN keys, but INS, DEL. ( I use VI for server configs in remote shells regularly) . Then I also use (but can live without) : HOME, END
It’s so hard to find a laptop that includes these keys without a full size layout. The last one I found was HP Scepter (2017), I am looking to replace this and want Framework so much, love everything about it… Apart from the damned keyboard layout.
I am sure I am not alone in this, I am sure that IT professionals will be a significant portion of potential customers for Framework. Please consider us with some optional (or a better) Keyboard layout.
Commented on another post on this topic already, but just to ensure it’s seen, the row of dedicated home-pgup-pgdn-end buttons is why I’m not purchasing, as much as I’d like to.
I agree that it’s nice to have dedicated home/pgup/pgdn/end keys. My old VAIO which has a right column for those navigation keys was my preferred layout - similar to the keyboard discussed in the other thread. The half-height pgup/pgdn keys on the keyboard in this thread are similar to what I was used to on my last ThinkPad, though it also has dedicated home/end keys up at the top.
Having said that, I really like the Framework laptop, and the autohotkey script I’m using for one-hand pgup/pgdn/home/end navigation is working pretty well for my needs.
@brianshmrian I saw that, and I’m glad it’s working for you. But I think for things like, highlighting to the end of the data in a column in excel (shift end dn) it would get futzy to remember to let go of the ctrl button (shift, ctrl, right arrow, release ctrl, down arrow?) If you have any other ideas for less cumbersome combinations I’d be interested.
@Rachel_Is_Not My current scheme works pretty well for me, but you’re right that it can’t handle end+dn since dn would be interpreted as pgdn. You could add a hotkey that interprets ctrl+] to mean end+dn, but it’s true that we’re starting to run out of easy, one-handed combos at this point!
I wanted to suggest again that framework add a bios option to allow right-alt to be interpreted as fn, though alt+shift+end+down is also a pretty awkward combo! (Edit: Oops… and that also doesn’t solve the problem of fn+dn being interpreted as pgdn!)
I think it would be really cool to have a wider variety of keyboard layouts available for purchase on the marketplace. Different languages definitely take precedent, but alternatives to QWERTY would be fun to try out and play around with on a modular laptop.
Same here, I very much like the idea of Framework, but I won’t buy it until there’s HP-like keyboard layout with dedicated row for home/end/page-up/page-down.
That’s in the post I’ve replied to: “the dedicated row for home/end/page-up/page-down” (vertical)
I didn’t say I think it would be produced. But it’s quite possible and for 16" it seems easy to implement, as 16" has more keyboard flexibility, more space, and has already some keyboard options to choose from.
For 13" it would require different top lid, as the keys seem to be integrated inside of it. But looking at the width of CapsLock and Shift keys, it probably can accomodate another vertical key row if those aforementioned are shrinked a bit on both sides. So it’s feasible as well.
I think quite a few touch typists would kill be extemely unhappy if you messed with the shift key. CapsLock though is pretty unnecessary imo, I remap my Caps.
This is true for some people, yes. But it’s also true that ISO keyboards have a short left Shift and most of the Europe use it. I personally prefer ANSI - not because of Shift lenght, but because of its position.
I think you guys are really missing the mark here.
Isn’t the point of the framework laptop that we’re able to customize? Did framework do research to determine that everyone wants an ethernet port? No, they instead let you choose.
Keyboard preferences are more important to me than which port is on the laptop. Why shouldn’t framework allow different keyboards (perhaps even aftermarket) to be installed onto this laptop so that the user may have full choice?
EDIT: I’m the OP. It looks like I am accidentally using a different account.
But, they do?
They have open sourced info needed for an aftermarket or custom self-made keyboard. Exact connectors, pinout, key matrix layout is available. Even the EC firmware is open source, should you wish to customize how internal functions like the Fn key and more works (modifying the EC would not be necessary though).
You say allow, even aftermarket, but if you instead mean for Framework to create alt keyboards layouts themselves, well they have to judge if whatever layout you want is worth it. In recovering costs in a reasonable time frame & also if it’s worth their focus at this particular point, they just have a lot of things they are trying to do, and there is so much that could be done.
Ultimately the current FWL13 may just not be the best platform for this level of keyboard layout customization. It seems to be aimed at being portable, which involves trade offs to keep things thin & light. Having the keyboard intergated into the top input cover the way it is, cut out around individual keys, is probably to improve rigidity. Unfortunately, that makes custom layouts more involved and costly than on the FWL16.
Oh? I might be out of date then. (This post was originally created in 2021).
It seems impractical to do this on the 13 though. The “input cover kit” seems very difficult to assemble. The input cover kit is open source?
EDIT: All I can say is, until there are alternative keyboard options on 13/14 inch version, I won’t be able to purchase a framework laptop as much as I’d love to.
Connectors, pinouts, EC firmware is on their github. The keymatrix layout to physical keys would be available in the EC code. But a chart can also be found here, howett.net/data/framework_matrix. Full CAD models of the input cover, I don’t think they’ve cleaned up & provided yet, though they’ve said FWL13 CAD models are planned. I’ve seen community members create some CAD files of some parts. I recall this github off the top of my head at least, github.com/Captain-Pumpkinhead/Framework-13-Vanilla-Reconstruction
