Just wanted to clarify here that the issue of a power reset/cycle during a large write, so far, has shown to be operating system and USB NVME chipset agnostic. It’s at least because of some FW AMD mainboard/SSD incompatibility. A possible reason is that the system is not giving enough power to certain SSDs during sustained high speed write. Perhaps some power hungrier SSD models ask for power but don’t receive it fast enough or at all, which causes them to reset. This happens negotiated at 10Gbps speeds. It doesn’t reset when forcing negotiation at USB2/480Mbps or when the system mistakenly negotiates a 5Gbps connection on one (perhaps some) of the ports.
@Adrian_Joachim are you testing a large sustained write when negotiated at 10Gbps? A full 10GB transfer should reliably reproduce the issue. Your/the ASMedia 246x has reports of being pretty stable AFAIK, so if you can repro it then it further excludes USB NVME chipsets from being the culprit. If, indeed, large writes work on Windows but not Linux, with your ASMedia 246x and Samsung 970 Evo, then that’s some potentially revealing info.
Edit: also to add, we still don’t know if this issue affects all mainboards or just a specific batch, if it’s fixable in software, etc.
Echoing @Jason_Username_Taken that it would be nice if FW was publicly tracking/commenting on this issue, but some good news is that I do have a support ticket open with them and they’ve acknowledged that “this issue is currently under active investigation”.
I can’t reproduce your drop out during write issue at all, I just tested 20GB writes on:
970 evo in RTL9210 enclosure 1 at 10Gbit (USB A)
970 evo in RTL9210 enclosure 2 at 10Gbit (USB-C)
970 evo in ASM2464 in usb3 mode at 10Gbit
PM9A1 in ASM2464 in usb4 mode at 40Gbit (capped to 2GB/s for some reason)
970 evo in ASM2464 in usb4 mode at 40Gbit (capped to 2GB/s for some reason, after reboot cause hotplug doesn’t work)
All on linux cause I did not have any dropouts. Not sure it’s a prower issue per se, the PM9A1 (oem 980 pro) is a much more power hungry ssd than the 970 and that one works too.
Ah okay, many thanks for testing. I think yours and @Terrance_Hendrik’s particular issue of “the 970 EVO not being hotpluggable in Linux but works in Windows” is different than the issue of “particular SSDs dropping out during a large write regardless of operating system” of mine and @Jason_Username_Taken’s, etc.
Curiously, @Bruce_Wilbur experienced the “transfer rate rapidly degrades to negligible” issue (which I’ve seen happen with a particular cheap flash drive, might have been just that drive and not a FW issue though) with the 970 EVO on a different enclosure, in Linux, but didn’t mention any hotplug issues:
So, if I’m understanding correctly, it seems like your hotplug issue is at least particular to the Linux + ASMedia ASM2464 + 970 EVO combo and may be caused by faulty driver/firmware somewhere in that chain.
Though maybe all of these (with the transfer/write issues) are symptoms of the same root cause from FW hardware/firmware.
Think so too, theough the 970 evo being a bit of a problem child is the common denominator
It’s even more speciffic, It’s particular to the framework laptop amd, linux and the asm2464 in usb4 mode and and the 970 evo, in tb3 mode though my egpu it works, in usb3 mode it works and on win11 it works.
Thank you all for the additional information, really appreciated.
According to Kieran, new AMD BIOS may drop within the next 7 days or so. Therefore, I’ll probably stay put for a few days, and try testing everything again with the new BIOS.
Until then, AMD will remain as an auxiliary and 12th Gen will continue to be my daily. I hope the new BIOS package will fix this issue, the AMD was meant to be my daily after all.
Power supply probably isn’t an issue per se. I’m now doing some sustained transfer test with external HDD, with this particular one being an HDD+Tiny SSD Hybrid drive. I assume this probably draws more power than my Gen3 NVMe in an enclosure. (although I do not have a device to measure)
Another update. Was just messing with the laptop before ending the night, plugged external drive to Port 2, experienced ‘cool down’ and can’t recognize drive as usual, I kept the drive connected and triggered ‘battery disconnect’ in BIOS, afterward I also held down power button for ~30seconds for good measure.
After waking the computer by attaching DC to Port 1, I noticed it seems like the external enclosure isn’t getting power at all. Disconnected external enclosure and connected android phone to Port 2 instead, no data and phone shows it’s charging the laptop. Therefore, it does seems like there’s some funky negotiation happening.
Maybe related to the post below?
(Recovered to status quo by disconnecting everything, and trigger ‘battery disconnect’ again)
You could also just use an ssd that is not some form of 970 evo XD.
Also dicounting power issues, anything but a 970 evo (on linux) works in my pretty power hungry asmedia usb4 enclosure, including a PM9A1 which is a lot more power hungry than the 970 evo.
Just did a full device read (512GB) at 2.8GB/s (the bandwidth cap is still there but somehow higher than last time I tested).
Was the 970 evo plus realtec enclosure issue ever reproduced on windows?
The issue of the NVMe enclosure dropping out is very similar to what I’m running into with my iPhone 15 Pro Max that I posted in this thread: USB C is not compatible with iPhone 15 / Pro / Pro Max - #42 by Tyrael
TLDR: C-to-C cables constantly connect/disconnect; USB 3 A-to-C cable connects fine, but drops data link after a few minutes trying to backup phone; USB 2.0 A-to-C cable works fine.
I also have a TeamGroup USB 3.2 Gen 1 flash drive that is not seen at all by Windows when I plug it in, but works on other machines fine.
It seems more like the USB controllers between the AMD Framework board and what’s on the device aren’t playing nice.
NVMe SSD inside the enclosure: KIOXIA KBG40ZNS256G, known reliable and used as a boot drive for a few years without any issues.
SATA/USB adapter: Sabrent ASM1351, paired with a Samsung 850EVO SATA SSD.
Cables used: All known/confirmed good, tested multiple 2.0 and 3.0.
I use Windows To Go on a regular basis for gaming with the SATA/USB adapter and SSD. I find it convenient to separate my work space and my gaming space.
I tried Installing Windows to Go on the EL-2230C (Windows 11 Pro) with a software called Rufus. I applied the image either from the Framework Laptop itself (from a Virtualbox VM) or from a Windows To Go (Windows 11 Pro) install booted from a SATA/USB Drive.
Depending on the case, I always end up with a corrupted image on the EL-2230C:
Rufus fails to apply the full image to the disk and drops an error message.
Windows To Go BSOD on start because of corrupt files.
Windows To Go fails during OOBE because it corrups itself.
Windows To Go fails after a few minutes of normal usage and does not to boot anymore: unrecoverable BSOD on restart like case 2.
This behavior does not occur at all with a SATA to USB adapter. I tried cloning my daily (known good) Windows To Go image from my SATA drive to the EL-2230C, but ended up in case 4 in only a few minutes.
What I tried
Better cooling of the drive, adding thermal paste to the controller (the enclosure gets really hot).
Several USB cables, including USB-A and USB-C as well as USB 2.0.
Flashing several revisions of the JMicron JMS583 firmware on the EL-2230C (including firmware from other products).
Yup, there are other folks having issues with one-cable Type-C portable monitors not working on AMD FW, despite the same monitor works fine on Intel FW, and other computers. Defintely seems like some controllers isn’t functioning as they should.
Yup, I use Rufus created WinToGo quite often. Even if an intact WinToGo is created on the external NVMe with another computer, and successfully booting the AMD FW with it, once the R/W gets intensive it will BSOD. Essentially the drive will become unstable or drops outright when activitiy becomes intensive, irrelevant to what the activity is.
Likely not the issue especially if the drive works fine on other computers. My enclosure can become unsafe to touch at the extreme, yet sustained file transfer, WinToGo creation, and WinToGo booting all consistently work fine with my Intel Framework.
BTW. I think this is not USB-C’s problem. I use same enclosure and SSD with type-c to USB-A cable. I connect to framework official USB-A expansion card. The situation is the same.
