Apparently wobbly hinges

Framework Laptop 13
109

perhaps. consider Framework is made of ex-apple engineers.

But again. it’s Apple. If you look, Apple have two opposing clamps, compared to Framework’s single-piece roll-clamp, thus allowing for more tension. And also the fact that Macbook display panels are extremely lightweight. A un-fused panel (like the framework), especially un-glued, where the display is standalone, generally means a lot of extra weight.

I still think it’s a engineering oversight, but not a critical one, as the rest of the laptop end up being at least half decent (and are in fact very good. The thermal solution, for example, is excellent.)

Which isn’t a problem (and usually is the persistent problems) for 1st-gen designs (of anything). As long as there will be improvements down the line.

Usually better. All the Dell machines I have seen, Hp, even Lenovo where a brand new laptop (one week) will immediately throw bluescreen (snaps finger) just like that and upset my USB-C charger (you can hear the massive coil whine) have adjustable hinges. I have a GPD Win Max Gen 1 that don’t, which I believe is a design compromise (for such a small machine), but is irrelevant for such a small display anyway. And, in fairness, I trust more in Framework than GPD, having taken apart the Win Max and see the … cheap-ish construction they used.

If I own a framework with a hinge that … well, basically provide no friction. Will I be frustrated? Yes. Will it cause me to lose trust in the company? A little bit, yes. I would be hoping that they will fix this issue.

I was going to say that since Framework is lagging behind releasing Intel 12th gen that their company is having a little bit of problem, but I also think they are going to make more cool things.

If they do think this is a problem, they very likely have already came up with a solution. Or at least they will be attempting to solve this problem.

If the announce “oh our first 10 batches have a issue with the hinge”, then, well, public image is going to decrease, even if they offer to issue out the replacement for, say, free. If they don’t, the issue might just blow (hopefully not).

The best way, I think, is to implement this new hinge in the new (if any) Framework laptop. Or at least make a huge hassle about it in their new 12th gen (or something) machine, and offring this as “upgrade” to the old laptop, with loose-hinge-unit owners getting free replacements. But right now they are being very quiet, so I say we wait.

insert flimsy DIY ideas here

Meanwhile if you want, you can experiment with adding superglue to the moving parts to create a tighter fit for more friction. or bend the two pieces closer (hydraulic press) or … i don’t know. Heat them up and generate oxidation layers. Jamming in metal sheets might work as well. At least remove the hinge from the machine first, so if you do cook it up at least the rest of it is fine.

Unrelated

My mom is always quite harsh, my father slightly less so. I can safely say that being harsh isn’t necessarily good. Because what that has happened has happened. It’s fixed. Punishment create problems, not answers, even though it’s a good way to learn. I am glad that we are more frequently agreeing on things. My performance can certainly be better, but I doubt having even more harsh parents will improve the situation. Because you will be always tempted to do “cool” and “fun” things sneakily, even more so when there there is suprevision. When you are left with choices, sure, you might be unproductive for some time, but eventually you will … have a urge to demonstrate your usefulness.

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110

I admire your optimism.

The Space Telescope, probably the most designed, engineered, and tested product in the solar system. Has bugs.

Iphone, android, Tesla. Definitely design bugs. And on multi-generational products.

Laptops? Every one of them has some serious design issue. You choose the one that you can live with.

The only tech I have that’s truly that well-designed and robust is my HP-15C calculator, and that’s 35 years old.

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111

It doesn’t take much to realize that Apple has their issues as well. Along with an incredible amount of money and resources.

I think I posted elsewhere: I use my laptops hard (and with Linux). Over the years, my Asus Zenbooks had power supply issues. My Dell XPS13s and 15s had display issues (the hinges would actually break after a year or so). I got Lenovo support involved with my X1 Carbon the other day because it refused to charge.

Framework sent me a new hinge, which took 15 minutes to install and solved the problem. They’re making obvious small improvements in each iteration–a far more robust long-term strategy than introducing new models. You can’t make everybody happy, but I pretty much am.

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112

Compromises everywhere. Again, they (referring to your design cases) all either know, or they don’t know, the exact implications. Bugs - they don’t/didn’t know the exact implications, or decided they can live with them.

Going back to the hinges, so are you saying they knew the issue with the hinges during prototyping and still went with it? Or are you saying, they didn’t see the issue at all before production? Or are you saying something else?

In terms of the ‘knowledge’ of the issue at any point in time, it’s simple, yes / no.

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There are always compromises. We (hopefully) try to make them wisely.

They were pretty clear about it. They chose one-handed open over display solidity, a choice with which I happen to disagree. But it was their compromise, based on the knowledge and expectations they had at the time, amongst the huge number of other choices and compromises that must be made when developing an innovative new product, and with limited staff and resources.

They made their choices, and now they’re working to make improvements based on new knowledge and a much larger selection of use cases.

In my experience, things are rarely as simple as “yes/no.”

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If they knew of the issue, that is. It’s not clear if that was known. (Because compromises involve evaluation / weighing. If it’s unknown, then it’s lack of knowledge / experience, or negligence.)

One-handed opening is the feature (the intentional outcome), it’s not the issue (side-effect) being discussed. The implementation of the feature is what’s introduced the issue. The two are different items.

Rarely, but when it comes to the question i posted, it was a yes/no point in time knowledge question. Don’t span / scope the question more than what I posted. That is, you can have your own question, scope it how you want it.

Your last couple of replies started derailing (by scoping in wider aspects of design). Sure, they’re relatable, but beyond the scope here. i.e. It’s not a case of you got caught speeding and then saying…“But they’re speeding too” to the officer.

It’s not clear what the direction of the improvements are. What’s the notification / roll out plan? To existing customers or only applies to new purchases…? What are those new improvements, and to what extent do they improve the experience or impact the experience (positively or negatively)?

There this optimism from the community that things will improve…but there’s a lack of communication of commitment, timeline, applicability / eligibility…etc. e.g. We see there’s a hinge kit with a “3.8kg” designation…what does that even mean?

[In the spirit of derailing]
It’s like “Let’s don’t say a thing…if customers ask, then that’s one thing. But if they’re not asking, don’t say anything.”. Not saying that’s what it is, but it’s what I perceived “like”.

If anyone noticed, the level / degree of transparency has changed since Series A. Framework now answers to investors, more so than the customers (understandably given where the money is coming from). We used to get notices / transparency on even having TIM application issue, or double-sided tape). Framework hasn’t responded to the energy usage of the expansion cards, particular during system suspend/sleep, for months now. And what’s happening to the TB4 certification process?

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@A_A I humbly suggest there’s little to be gained by continuing this conversation.

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116

Agree. It’s pointless. (i.e. We don’t hold the cards anymore.)

117

I think it’s the torque. 3.8Kg/cm.
or 38g/m. or about 0.4N/m.
That sounds about right. It’s similar to the torque needed to tighten in a medium/large screw. (usually around 0.2N/m to 0.6N/m)
They said they are going to add a more “stiff” version with perhaps a nigher number. This can be either the “stiff” or the “regular” one. Unless you measure the torque yourself.

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One of my classmates has a laptop with the exact same display as my framework and also has a similar issue, I think the issue may instead be the weight of the display is too much.

119

And the 12C as well, which, even though it’s been redesigned multiple times was still in HP’s catalog until recently,

Now it seems to be an official licensee:

I do wish they were still making the 15C as well.
The originals were so well made.

Currently, the company Swissmicros.com is making full size and credit card size versions of the HP Voyager series. lower volume so relatively more pricy.

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Bought it for work at a physics lab in the mid 1980s, and have used it constantly since. It’s only on its fourth or so set of batteries. There’s “well designed” and then there’s the stuff HP was making “in the day.” :- )

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My originals were lost due to life events.
Ebay provided substitutes.

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An update on my end, the hinges on my batch 4 Framework were finally starting to really annoy me, so I decided to contact support.

These new hinges are soo much better.

My previous hinges wouldn’t be able to support the lid even in situations where I just simply picked up the laptop. These new hinges actually have some resistance built into them.

I’d say its now more like other ultrabooks now. And similar in resistance to the T480 I own. We shall see how long it lasts.

4 Likes
123

I’ve been having trouble figuring out the current state of affairs. Can someone from Framework please clarify:

  • Is the hinge kit in the marketplace identical to the hinges shipped in the earlier batches?
  • Are there still plans to introduce a different, high force hinge in the marketplace?

I’m confused because the current marketplace hinge mentions 3.8 kg, but this reddit comment mentions the nominal hinge being 3.3 kg and the high force hinge being 4.0 kg.

1 Like
124

This post explains the hinges a bit. Apparently there was a defective run of hinges; if you have one, you can send Framework a video showing the bad hinge performance and get a free replacement.

The 3.3kg hinge is the same, although there is a more robust QC process in place to ensure no more defective hinges. The 4.0kg hinge is new and obviously stiffer (one-handed opening appears to be less practical with the new hinge).

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125

As a follow-up to my own questions, Framework seems to have updated the store page since my previous post. They now list two different hinge kits, one 3.3 kg (FRANFB0001) and one 4.0 kg (FRANFB0002). The product page now has selector buttons for both options.

Thanks, Framework team!

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126

Just got and installed the new 4.0kg hinges. Beautiful. Now I can actually move around with my laptop without worrying about the screen flopping either way. Now, the stiffness is comparable with my 2019 Macbook Pro from work – which, personally, I feel is perfect. :slight_smile:

Honestly, I feel like Framework should offer this option on the order page – I definitely would’ve opted for stability over single-handed opening if I could have from the purchase page.

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127

@reanimus How is the wobble on the 4kg hinges?

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I haven’t had any issues so far during regular use. I can walk around with it open without worrying about the screen falling as long as I don’t jostle it super quickly. It’s still openable one handed, but it does take more effort as the hinge is springier. It’s hard to explain, but I made a video demonstrating the springiness of the hinges. That kind of movement would have likely closed the lid before — or at least started to.