This aggression will not stand, man. Hopefully the replacement battery lasts longer than the original one. Have a good day.
Less than half of a year buying a Framework Laptop I’m already skeptical about the battery. According to the manual, both the operating temperature and the battery charging temperature are 5°C to 35°C, but the battery only charges at one fifth of the rated speed at or below 20°C(the middle between 5 and 35), indicating a problem with the battery management system(BMS). I posted in the forum and it was moved from “Framework Laptop 13” to “Community Support” as if it’s not an official problem and it’s up to the community to find a solution.
In this thread many users report battery degradation faster than 80% capacity remaining (i.e. 20% degradation) after 1000 cycles specified. I just set the charging limit of my 61Wh battery to 75% as my previous 5y/o laptop has a 46Wh battery without limit charge % function and the health is 89% after 400 cycles.
I guess there’s always a risk of using a niche product. Since the user base is very small, problems go under the radar more frequently, compared to popular computer models.
Sorry about my wording, edited my reply(80% capacity i.e. 20% degradation) to reduce confusion
It’s written on the user manual.
It’s possible that the battery chosen works better at higher temperatures, i.e. 10°C to 40°C, to compensate the heat(+5°C) from the components of the laptop, in this case charging at 20°C with computer off is a bit low.
Sorry, but I was wondering that is it true that the battery quality has been declining over the years?
My previous job involves working with lithium ion batteries and my colleagues and I found that use external force(clamped with aluminum plates, putting counterweight on top, etc) to physically prevent an aging lithium polymer battery from swelling actually reduces degradation. Testing shows lowered internal resistance and higher capacity compared to an aging battery left swelling. This could also explain why cylindrical cells are more durable and safer than pouch cells. In conclusion, performance degradation and dangerous potentials are not entirely separate for a swelling battery
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Just discovered the ML1220 coin cell of the same age is also dead, as in no longer taking a charge. wth man… These things are sold with solder tabs and expected to last over 10 years not under 3. But I upgraded to the 12th gen as soon as it was orderable, so maybe sitting dead for a year killed it. At least it’s not soldered so it’s easy to replace.
… ha!, check all the comments on the only suitable result on Amazon… 
https://www.amazon.com/ML1220-Lithium-Rechargeable-Batteries-Cloth/dp/B088KT9HB9
So it’s normal for these to die in 2 years. Well I think it’s not normal, but is apparently normal for the Framework 11th gen.
Can you try charging it with a bench power supply?(with resistors to reduce current to single digit mA)
The cell becomes damaged if it’s allowed to drop too low. Combine that with the fact that Framework will send a new one for free & there isn’t any point in messing around with it, just replace.
Since this is now in a coolermaster case, I’m installing a much larger ML2020 with solder legs. There should be room to install at least 2 of them actually to provide about 90mah. Same voltage, same battery chemistry, and there is a spot right next to the holder that should hold 2 of these stacked, and dead simple wiring right over to the solder legs on the holder, without even buggering up the holder. Could still install a normal cell, although I think I won’t mix different size cells connected at the same time, either just the normal cell, or one or more of the bigger cells.
I already ordered the ones from amazon before finding out that FW would supposedly send a free replacement so no sense even asking now. I don’t need this type for anything but this one 11th gen board. And now I’m probably not even going to use those since I’m using one or two 2020’s instead now.
There is room for even more, like at least 4, but the board gets a little warm a little further to the right, (20mm further away from the holder), and I don’t want to put cells right over that spot. But even just a single 2020 takes the capacity from 17mah up to 45 mah, so that’s already plenty. And the way the case is so tall, I think there’s room to put 2 2020’s on top of each other, so now 90mah.
There are a few different chemistries that are all rechargeable coin cells with lithium, and even the same nominal output voltage, but they all take different charge voltage, so it’s critical to only use ML series not VL series which look the same, or anything else.
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Whether the cell being damaged or not and whether the mainboard failed to recognize a discharged coin cell are not the same thing.
The point is to figure out which one is the possible cause of the cell “not taking a charge”
Sorry for nitpicking, if that annoys you or other users I’ll shut up…
I think that messing with old worn down devices is a legitimate hobby.
The board is putting 3.17v into the cell.
That’s probably a damaged cell, wait for replacement
BTW You haven’t said anything that makes me want to say shut up. I think it’s equally valid to say this isn’t worth wasting time on, or to say it’s as perfectly interesting and valid to spend time on as any other interest.
You never figure out anything if you don’t just poke at something for a while some times. Every minute can’t be either sleeping or directly productive billable hours or taking a selfie at one of the wonders of the world.
I don’t even have a use for this stupid thing. By the numbers it made no sense to buy the coolermaster case (or even print one).
I upgraded the motherboard and didn’t have to replace anything else at the time. That’s good. But now so far I have spent:
$40 coolermaster case
$80 1T TN470 nvme
$40 2 x 8G ddr4-3200
$25 intel AX200 wifi-6/bt-5 card WITH 2 antennas (and 2 desktop/server pcie brackets)
$6 2 x ML2020
Plus tax & shipping
…on the left-over motherboard, and no real use for it.
And that’s not counting
- $20 the ML1220’s from amazon which got obsoleted by the ML2020’s
- 45 minute drive each way drive out to MicroCenter (hd, ram, and wifi were all right off the shelf there. But I have a convertible and the weather was nice and I like audiobooks, so eh
- $120 chargeasap 100W power supply
- $10 100w usbc power cable
- $250 ASUS MB16AC screen (back in 2018 when I got it)
- $100 HP LifeStyle 1000 wireless keyboard
- $75 Microsoft Arc Mouse
- $9 usba module for the keyboard receiver (everything else is rawdogged right into the motherboard ports)
I already had these for a long time, but, I still only have them because I bought them, just, previously, and now they are occupied for this instead of for something else)
It’s ultimately just a much less gainly laptop, or much less useful desktop. I already have fully working whole laptops which are better for most situations where I could use a 2nd computer for some reason like if I need to use Windows or FreeBSD and not in a vm and don’t want to boot my main machine into it. Most likely is maybe I’ll mount it on the back of a tv at one of my work benches to use for looking up documentation or running eprom or fpga programming software etc.
The most sensible thing to do was probably to just try to get $50 for it on ebay or something.
But not the most interesting.
As far as I’m concerned, pick this battery issue all the way apart.
sorry I was replying MJ1.
Totally agree
I don’t think you want to be doing that as you will double the voltage. This means they probably will not charge as the battery voltage is higher than the charge voltage, and also the RTC/CMOS backup chip will be receiving too much voltage and probably fry.
That would depend on how the batteries are connected to each other. If they’re connected in parallel, the total amperage will increase, but not the voltage. Charging might require more amps at that point, though, which could be a problem.
Yeah, but I wouldn’t want to directly connect them in parallel as they have a nasty habit of unequally sharing, and the talk was of ‘stacking’ them on top of each other, suggesting the two cells would be in series, thereby doubling the voltage.
Nothing about the word stacking implies connecting in series. Or in parrallel. These are individually insulated cells with solder legs welded on. Not stacked bare cells like in a flashlight. Multi-cell packs of all chemistries are routinely spot-welded in whatever combination of parallel & serial the application requires. 2, 3, or 4 cells directly hard-wired in parrallel, or series if you wanted the voltage to add up, are perfectly fine. You just can’t mix chemistries or capacities or ages. Individual cell management is only needed in high current or especially “dynamic” chemistries like lipo. These only require a particular voltage and current for charging, a pretty narrow range but otherwise no especially exotic management. The motherboard is producing the correct voltage, and the current will be less than the battery could tolerate, making the full charge time take longer and making it merely easier on the cells.
One possible problem is the parallel cells could possibly try to draw more current from the source, if the source were not current-controlled, but it is so there is no chance of drawing any more current even if there were a dead short wire in place of a battery. There is no danger of hurting the charging circuit, but there is a possibility that the charging IC senses the less-resistive load and treats it as some kind of short in the battery and decides it better stop providing power. So maybe it fails to charge simply because the charging circuit says “something funny here, I’m going to be safe and shut down”. In that case I just remove the extra cell, or add a resistor.
Yes, in this case, obviously the connection is parallel. Also the + goes to the + and the - goes to the -, and all the bits are insulated with kapton or other insulator instead of allowed to short all over the place.
Yes, at some point one of the cells will be the first to start behaving a little different from the rest enough to make the whole pack no longer viable. That day is no sooner than with a single cell.
In other words, this is not an issue.
Yes, that’s true, I didn’t consider that. Connecting them in parallel would require a more complex setup than stacking them in series.
No it’s not complex. It’s not like the main battery that needs each individual pouch individually monitored, nor like a car or house or even a power tool with high current and heat etc. You just solder the pins together.
Quite the opposite, for most battery chemistries parallel is significantly easier than series