August 2021 batch 3 battery all puffed up already

Framework Laptop 13
1

I keep my laptop on a stand on a desk so I don’t often handle it or even look at the sides. I just noticed that the top cover is bursting at the seams.

2 years 9 months? Not unheard of for a lipo to go bad in 1000 days I guess, but it’s sure disappointing when I have a bunch of way older Sony, LG, Lenovo, & Apple machines with similar flat pouch lipo batteries that never puffed up and they are a lot older than this.

I have had one HP and a Samsung android table do it, though they both took longer than 2 3/4 years.

I’ve already ordered the replacement battery and I still like my Framework and I don’t want anything other than I wish the quality was a little better across the board.

For instance My screen has always been unevenly colored and a bit on the pink side. Like looking at a white screen, the white is all noticeably pink compared to two other monitors on the desk, or any other laptop just held up next to it, and there is a vertical band of blue/purple haze about 3/4 to the right, almost like when you bring a magnet near a crt. There was a thread way back about the screen calibration and I’ve tried to use color profiles to compensate, but the blueish splotch is not something that can be compensated with a color profile. I don’t do any sort of graphics design or professional photography so I just live with the frankly garbage screen because coding and cad and pcb design etc doesn’t really matter, plus I mostly look at 2 other monitors.

For instance the bios and usbc issues that have really never been resolved for the entire life of whole motherboards. I am on a 12th gen now but started on a 11th gen, and the 11th gen lived it’s entire life with bios issues that just never got resolved. I got lucky there and did not seem to have the problems other people had. My ports all seemed to work and I didn’t have the 0.39ghz throttling problem etc. I did have fun with a bios update one time that did something wrong with the way it handles rebooting and went into a boot loop that I had to figure out my own fix by manually editing the contents of the EFI partition.

Other things that I can’t prove but I just never had the problem before, like, my external monitors ROUTINELY disconnect and reconnect and I have to use arandr to reconfigure the desktop. I have tried several different thunderbolt 3 and 4 cables of different power and speed ratings, 3 different tb3/tb4 docking stations, and on the same os (though, older) going back years, I never had that problem on Sony or Lenovo machines.

Whatever, actually I’m a mostly happy owner but it’s just not all roses that’s all. I don’t actually recommend FW to most people who ask for help figuring out what to get. Some I tell to get a LG Gram, some I tell to get a Thinkpad, or a Macbook, but you’d have to be another “me” who is willing to tolerate all kinds of qol hits in trade for more diy-ability, like running linux and trying to only use open source apps for everything. Well, I guess a FW laptop is like that. It’s more “good for you” than “good”. If I were FW, I would not really like that to be the tldr for “What is Framework?”

2 Likes
2

Me too. I would NOT buy a different laptop. I have a 11th Gen Batch 8 in the UK so only 2 years 3 months.

And likewise I would not recommend this laptop to anyone, … . . well very unlikely. But then I wouldn’t recommend anything to anyone, so . . . hmmm!

On the battery. It’s one thing to have a battery die, but to puff up is another issue. Even though it is out of warranty it may be useful for Framework to know…

I tend to have mine on charge at 78% when using (4,5 hours a day ~ down from 6 the first year ~ it was fun), so I only have 101 cycles used which should relate to about 2% wear but it’s at 12%, Recently jumped from 4% to 6% then to 12%

So what was your charge and use ‘routine’

A couple of weeks ago I did take off the input panel to check for dust and the battery seemed fine.

Screen | BIOS all fine. Issue with Expansion card 256GB SSD disconnecting - replaced.

Thanks for all the info.

3

I don’t know where I stand on getting another one if I needed to.

I have already invested a lot in this platform. To start, I didn’t go cheap from the outset, max cpu ram and hd in the first place, all the modules (4 usbc, 2 dp, 2hdmi, 2 usba, 1 1TB, 1 microusb, 1 ethernet) , new keyboard after I spilled a coffee on my original, upgraded from top 11th gen to top 12th gen motherboard. And now the new 61wh battery, and added the coolermaster case to the battery order to stick my 11th gen board in (and then probably do nothing with it).

But if I get fed up with the screen, even though I like that they came out with a matte screen, I’m not 100% sure if i’ll buy a new screen from the same company that sold me such a junky one in the first place. Similar for the AMD motherboard. It means new ram and wifi along with it. Do I keep giving this company my money?

I probably will. I just wish I could pay with money that only 95% works.

4

You should reach out to Support for both the battery and the screen. If you have a splotchy part of the screen then it sounds like it is defective. Neither of my 11th gen machines has that issue. Personally, I find the screens to be above average, but that’s just, like, my opinion, man.

Best of luck, and have a great day!

2 Likes
5

Although l would probably contact Framework, not as support in this case as both the screen and the battery are out of warranty.

In the UK ‘we’ have six years to complain that an item isn’t fit for purpose and should be repaired, but at a cost after 2 years total warrantee.

That wouldn’t include this laptop as the Framework business is not established in the UK but somewhere in the EU.

1 Like
6

Fair point. Not knowing who to contact, in my case I would reach out to Support and have them help to point me in the right direction. Presumably it would be someone in Engineering, but the company is pretty small so there’s likely a decent amount of overlap.

1 Like
7

Why would I contact support? What question do I have for them? What do I expect them to do? I know how to address the situation so I don’t need help in that regard. It’s long out of warranty so I’m not expecting to get a new battery for free. The damage is done. They sold and shipped a battery that puffed up in under 3 years. That is simply a past and finished fact now. All I’m doing is reporting that this has happened. I could contact them to just inform them for their own data, but why should they alone get that info instead of everyone? And they have that same info now. (And if they don’t scan these posts, who’s fault is that?)

Same with the screen. It functions, it’s just low quality. The blue area also developed gradually over time. I’m not sure if it was there from the beginning but very faint, or just not there initially. I am not remotely interested in whatever hoops they would make me jump through to prove that the screen still looks like crap even when running Windows, and have no way to prove that I didn’t do it somehow by sunlight or heat or something and not interested in the effort to try to prove unprovables like that. The damage is done. They sourced and sold a crap screen. That’s a finished fact of history.

8

Yes I don’t know if they read that much, there’s a lot of topics.

I suppose they could be tagged. My concern is largely the battery which could be dangerous or damaging and I would want them to know.

9

We do not respond to most topics, but we read almost all of them—at least, I do.

When you report something to support, it helps us track the issue and determine if there is a widespread problem, allowing us to understand the impact. For out-of-warranty products, of course, we can’t force anyone to contact support just for reporting.

The support team should not make anyone “jump through hoops” for troubleshooting. Sometimes it might seem like they are asking the same (or very similar) things repeatedly, but it’s only to ensure that you are not missing an important step. As a support professional with years of experience (both technical and non-technical), I can confirm that most problems can be resolved with very basic troubleshooting and actions. The more knowledgeable you are, the more you tend to skip over basic things, which is why it’s harder to troubleshoot issues with tech-savvy folks.

That being said, if you have a negative experience with support, please share that as well so I can pass along the feedback.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your experience and feedback.

6 Likes
10

This aggression will not stand, man. Hopefully the replacement battery lasts longer than the original one. Have a good day.

11

Less than half of a year buying a Framework Laptop I’m already skeptical about the battery. According to the manual, both the operating temperature and the battery charging temperature are 5°C to 35°C, but the battery only charges at one fifth of the rated speed at or below 20°C(the middle between 5 and 35), indicating a problem with the battery management system(BMS). I posted in the forum and it was moved from “Framework Laptop 13” to “Community Support” as if it’s not an official problem and it’s up to the community to find a solution.

In this thread many users report battery degradation faster than 80% capacity remaining (i.e. 20% degradation) after 1000 cycles specified. I just set the charging limit of my 61Wh battery to 75% as my previous 5y/o laptop has a 46Wh battery without limit charge % function and the health is 89% after 400 cycles.

I guess there’s always a risk of using a niche product. Since the user base is very small, problems go under the radar more frequently, compared to popular computer models.

12

Both retain up to 80% capacity after 1,000 cycles of use.
Framework | Battery

The specs say 20% degredation after a 1000 cycles, but that may be an optimum factory standard. Mine is 12% after 100 cycles. You could say worrying but then what is my life if that it what I have to worry about?

Anyway who are these many users and how do you define many out of an unknown number. Many people x of y is true of every interaction between people and . . . .

I would say the opposite, that Framework is unique in the attention and feedback.

That’s interesting, where did you see that?

And my laptop is nearly always warmer than 35°C but that doesn’t stop it charging at 60W when between 40% and 80% approx.

However this is about a puffed battery, so be careful about stretching this to include your ‘other’ issues, as you mention you have already done that.

My concern is not the battery longevity in this topic but the swelling which I consider potentially dangerous and damaging.

But even this one case I’ve read about does not make me sceptical about the battery as a general product.

13

Sorry about my wording, edited my reply(80% capacity i.e. 20% degradation) to reduce confusion

It’s written on the user manual.

It’s possible that the battery chosen works better at higher temperatures, i.e. 10°C to 40°C, to compensate the heat(+5°C) from the components of the laptop, in this case charging at 20°C with computer off is a bit low.

Sorry, but I was wondering that is it true that the battery quality has been declining over the years?

My previous job involves working with lithium ion batteries and my colleagues and I found that use external force(clamped with aluminum plates, putting counterweight on top, etc) to physically prevent an aging lithium polymer battery from swelling actually reduces degradation. Testing shows lowered internal resistance and higher capacity compared to an aging battery left swelling. This could also explain why cylindrical cells are more durable and safer than pouch cells. In conclusion, performance degradation and dangerous potentials are not entirely separate for a swelling battery

1 Like
14

On the temp it says 45°C when in use which will include charging I would assess

Blockquote

Laptop in a place where the temperature is between 5C -35C (41F - 95F)
(operating) -25C- 45C

15

The storage temperature is between -25C to 45C and the operating temperature is between 5C to 35C

image
image1507×183 113 KB

image
image1420×279 130 KB

image
image1491×129 48.4 KB

16

Ah! yes when I read it again the (storage) is after the 45%

My bad. Apologies

#And yes there is the second text which I didn’t get to.

Never read or even considered there would be a manual :blush:

But puffy batteries that’s a bit of a blow.

17

Just discovered the ML1220 coin cell of the same age is also dead, as in no longer taking a charge. wth man… These things are sold with solder tabs and expected to last over 10 years not under 3. But I upgraded to the 12th gen as soon as it was orderable, so maybe sitting dead for a year killed it. At least it’s not soldered so it’s easy to replace.

… ha!, check all the comments on the only suitable result on Amazon… :slight_smile:
https://www.amazon.com/ML1220-Lithium-Rechargeable-Batteries-Cloth/dp/B088KT9HB9

So it’s normal for these to die in 2 years. Well I think it’s not normal, but is apparently normal for the Framework 11th gen.

18

So what’s going on [soldered] [not soldered]

The ML1220 is not sold with solder tabs and not designed to last three years.

If the voltage drops very low and it may only take 50 cycles. It’s a design that is meant to be charged regularly at least 6hr per week if not more.

It only holds 17mW

The battery dies as it hasn’t been charged regularly and not enough. It was an acknowledge design flaw and Framework will send you another battery if you ask.

See this extensive topic and there are workarounds too.

The 12Gen was also charged from the main battery
The 13Gen just uses the main battery and has no ML1220

19

Can you try charging it with a bench power supply?(with resistors to reduce current to single digit mA)

20

The cell becomes damaged if it’s allowed to drop too low. Combine that with the fact that Framework will send a new one for free & there isn’t any point in messing around with it, just replace.