CPU running at hot temps?

Framework Laptop 13
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I am reading some of the recent rewiews for the Framework Laptop, and while I am very hyped and happy to see the good results in the benchmarks ran by them, I am also a bit worried of something they’ve pointed out: CPU temps.

Based on postings in this forum, the cooling system in the laptop claimed to keep it in good temps, but so far more than a couple of reviews are pointing out the CPUs running at very high temps.

Here are some extracts from the reviews:

The CPU peaked at 100 degrees Celsius numerous times in runs of PCMark 10 and sustained temperatures in the very high 90s throughout the PCMark Spreadsheets test. The Ryzen CPU in the Asus ROG Flow X13, for example, stayed around 10 degrees cooler throughout this same benchmark, which is still running pretty hot. - Per Digital Trends

…But even at the lowest setting, the thermometer was clocking in 96-degree temperatures around the function keys. - Per Gizmodo

Reason this concerns me is because a chip running at 90°C (194℉) during 24 hours and 7 days a week, will probably last 6-20 months.

That itself concerns me a bit, specially since I was thinking on using mine for graphic work (mild) and light gaming.

I should note that in both of these reviews they’re using a Core i7-1165G7, which is the mid-tier option for the motherboard, and as far as I’ve been able to research, newer Intel CPUs are alleged to withstand high temperatures easily.

What would be the reason something of this could happen? And how does this stack with the lower/highest tier motherboards for the Framework Laptop?

I am not fully familiar with this gen of CPUS and if they are capable of tolerating high temperatures, but I figured i’d be great to ask since it would be a bummer to have to be buying motherboards every 2 years or so if temperatures this high affects lifespan.

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It would be great if we could define our own fan curves. I am not one of those people who prefers quite and dealing with higher temps. My computers last because I do what I can to keep temps down.

I always use a more aggressive fan curve. Heat kills electronics, so why live with higher temps than necessary? I’m confident there will be solutions to all of this.

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Hello there!
I have not much time today, but this ist my short answer!
It ist absoluty normal for this Intel-Gernations.

Example given:
My MacBook Air has a base ghz of 1,2 ghz (i7 10th gen) an can boost up to 3,8 ghz. This ist way to much for the little cooling system. If your doin a stupid long term Benchmark (your actual workload will always be different from an syntetical benchmark) yes all modern gaming laptop will try to boost up as high as they can. So they will end at around 2,x ghz and with 100 Degrees Celsius.

My MacBook is running at 100 for 1,5 years no Problem, this chips can handle that easily!

To the Frame.work laptop:
Yes it will thermal Trottle during styptic benchmarks, and yes it will absoluty survive the 100 Degrees, these intel chips are build like that.
The real question for me is, how the do in normal task (normal task for an ultrabook).

But a have do agree, if you doin maybe hardcore blender stuff or video Editing yes than the frame.work laptop will get also hot. But this is the way these intel chips work. Go full Power, Lern to get hot, lower the power until, temperature and power match. Depends on the Cooling the point will be by 1,8 ghz or higher!

Did this help? Greetings :smiley:

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P.S.: the link is maninly for Desktop PC´s not for mobile.!

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As for the reason for these higher temperatures, your Digital Trends article says this:

Well, open and accessible components certainly may be one of the culprits. Multiple fans, more heat pipes, large heatsinks, extra vents in the chassis, and other kinds of heat spreaders are all additional techniques laptops use to cool these components. The Framework Laptop is limited to just a single large fan, a couple of heat pipes, and some small openings along the bottom of the laptop for airflow.

I share your concern, by the way.

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@Johannes_T Thank you for the information! Yeah, it did help a lot.

I’ll try to get a cooling pad regardless since I don’t like my devices getting hot that much, but I appreciate you explaining me a bit more on how that works.

And it makes sense that in those benchmarks it’ll get hot. The Gizmodo review seemed to be the most critical review so far (but also the one that makes me the more concerned and hopeful the Framework team sees to see if there are fixes via software/firmware)

Hopefully the FF team sees this post and do some extra explaining because it is making me feel slightly worries (but to be fair, the one thing that truly is making me consider cancelling the preorder is the battery life, many reviews are reporting poor/bellow average battery life)

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@2disbetter That would be cool indeed! I’d even love to see an optional case that has more fans and heatsinks. Even if it makes the bottom a bit chunky, It’d be more worth it at the end.

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@Ryan_Martens Yes, that explains it pretty well :wink: I also wanted to ask here mainly to see if it also has to do with the processor itself, because based on other review for laptops with similar processors it also runs hot (specifically in the case itself)

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I plan on just disabling turbo boost under Windows or Linux, until I need it. I’ve found this is one of the best ways to limit heat artificially.

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I think the most simple solution would be to undervolt the cpu. Is this possible woth intel?

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Personally from what I’ve seen in adequately-cooled Tiger Lake ultrabooks (which Framework appears to be), sustaining 15W puts the CPU Package temperature at 60-65C, while sustaining ~30W should be possible at 85-90C, a temp I consider to be safe to sustain for prolonged workloads.

@Kieran_Levin posted a screenshot of FurMark (a GPU-heavy load) running for 5 minutes on the 1165G7 and the temperatures looked remarkably low (28W@73C). So I’m curious about this discrepancy vs. the third-party reviews.

Intel has disabled the ability to undervolt 11th gen CPUs (at the hardware level, so no easy workarounds). That said, you should be able to use something like ThrottleStop (on Windows) to modify PL1 and PL2 values if you’re not happy with the values Framework chose. Also, since Framework claims the EC firmware is open-source, it theoretically should be possible to do this without any third-party programs.

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We’re digging into the Gizmodo unit as soon as we get it back to determine what is happening there. In general, we see the laptop sustain 28W indefinitely at CPU temperatures in the high 70s to low 80s under normal ambient temperatures, as indicated in the earlier screenshot from Kieran.

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@feesh we have configured the dynamic tuning framework so that when the power slider is adjusted in windows, the TDP will change. I need to double confirm the exact values but I think the following should be close. We will publish a knowledge base article soon with more details.

Battery Saver: PL1 10-12W (I need to double check)
Best Battery: PL1 15W
Balanced: PL1 28W (with thermal throttling control to limit max temps)
Best performance: PL1 28W with higher thermal limits.

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That looks very sane! Appreciate the transparency.

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@feesh Oh wow, I did not knew that was done… I appreciate you explaining me and taking your time as well :slight_smile:

@nrp @Kieran_Levin
Thanks for the honestly and reading my concern… I’d hope is just unit errors, but hopefully if it’s something, then it could be something solve.

Would this be something to be concerned about with the i5, and VPro models? or were temps the ame as the ones you guys tested?

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I am absolutely excited for the framework laptop and vision and was just about to place my purchase, but when I read 3+ tech spec reviews commenting on the hot temperatures, I belayed that order.

I’ll reconsider placing an order and recommending this to others when that is addressed publicly (which it may already have been, and I haven’t seen it yet)

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@Robert_Pearce I feel ya… I was close to cancelling mine too, I am just glad that the team themselves answers questions here… does make me feel like they care. Hopefully they can address this and see what happened :slightly_frowning_face:

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Thank you very much for the info. It has never occurred to me before that the power scheme in windows would adjust the tdp.

Perhaps disabling turbo boost was unnecessary, and I should have just used the power saver scheme.

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I did cancel mine… And keep coming back to see whether any solutions have been found. My current laptop’s heat issues is one of the main reasons I want to change though, so I guess it is just wishful thinking. Maybe v2?

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For what it’s worth, I have not been able to get my temps anywhere near what the review unit did until I sat in bed with the laptop sitting on top of my comforter and being choked for air. I managed to get it around 90c at the cpu and it was warm on the bottom for sure, but as soon as I lifted it off the comforter it cooled right down and could be on my lap. I’d be happy to grab an IR thermometer and give you some real world usage temps if you want. Just let me know what you want to see.

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