Are you saying two USB-C ports (or two USB-A) on one expansion card, or one USB-C and one USB-A on the same card? I’m okay with either if not both!
Also, welcome to the community!
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Sadly there is basically no room inside the expansion connector, and it is deemed impossible.
Fortunately, with the 6-slot Framework 16 announced, this is no longer going to be a significant issue.
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I was under the impression it was possible, but unfortunately the USB-C port(s) wouldn’t be able to charge the laptop with, but you could still physically build it? Eh, doesn’t matter. I’ve never run out of room and a hub for the use cases of many plug-in devices is fine with me.
Ain’t that the truth though. Very interested in how this goes, and if the AMD version will have USB4 on more than two ports by then. Likely not though, knowing the current architecture. But there’s always the future full of upgrades!
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At least two of them are given 2 lanes of PCIe instead of 4.
I wont mind a few “USB/only” ports. The slot can be keyed in such a way that only USB (and audio jack) cards can be inserted.
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Because the reality is that very few (or basically under no circumstances) do a person actually need all the ports to be Thunderbolt. If you have 5 PCIe cards plugged into 5 different bays, maybe get a desktop PC instead.
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While this do limit the position of port placement, I do not think it is a deal breaker since you can still get to have options (e.g., two on left and one on right with Thunderbolt connectivity for displays/charging), rest are regular USBs. You get to have more ports this way, and you get to reduce board complexity.
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This is fair, though even with reduction of complexity, one of the big fun draws for Framework is being able to charge from all of their ports. Otherwise, only two Thunderbolt ports is totally fine, I just think it’ll be cool to have more in the future. Only think I can think about using more than 2 is wanting high-speed transfer from two flash drives while having an eGPU plugged in. My use case, even if I were to have an eGPU, would still be fine with lowered transfer speeds… because it would not be often that that would be happening, and the speed is already fine for small files.
Otherwise, realistically, I don’t think more than two is necessary to push for. It’s nice to have it, but eh. For AMD boards, its really not a bad thing to only have two USB4 / 4 PCIe lanes, etc. I wouldn’t mind it either 
In any case, the SIX ports on the new FW16 is going to be pretty damn good along with all the other features it has. I’m excited to see them, and I’m toying with getting a second laptop already 
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Flash Drives operate on USB 3.2 or whatsnot. They don’t run on Thunderbolt.
We can still keep charging from both side. And also.
“USB-C 3.2 with Display Port Alt Mode and USB Power Delivery”
is a thing. You can still charge and do display out and have fast USB on the port. Just not Thunderbolt. This will work if the device do not support Thunderbolt (e.g., graphics card-attached USB-C on gaming laptops, Pentium netbooks)
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Yeah I guess that does it then. Power really can come from any port you like. Either way, FW is still pushing and blazing a new path that I hope gets the mainstream notice it deserves. No other company/product has this much variability choice afaik. Imagine two Macbook owners trying to charge from any port or replace their unused USB port for a headphone jack…
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For some reason it won’t let me reply to you King_Inf3rno. I would like cards with two USB a or two USB c. Mainly because most devices like keyboard’s, mice, and peripherals are USB a. So for my use I would need a hub. I have a keyboard and mouse plugged in, USB mic and power. I can’t wait for the 16 in model though but still feel having just USB cards with dual ports would be nice.
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I was a little confused with the UI at first too, but if you highlight the text in my message you wish to reply to, a small “Quote” option box will appear. Clicking it will start a reply draft with the reply already automatically embedded.
I thought this would be nice as well, but looking at the dimensions of the cards, two USB-A ports would be rather close. Any two given peripherals you’d want to plug in would likely need slimmed connection ports, and not the rubber that usually encases the USB plug metal (i.e. those little thumb drives that the plug is also the body of the device) since they would likely get in the way of each other. Moreover, there is almost no extra room for a second controller inside especially with a second USB-C port (let alone a second USB-A), so data bandwidth would be split between the ports.
Honestly, this is your best bet. One of those really nice hubs like this one with an internal NVMe enclosure, HDMI, USB 3.1 Gen 1 and USB 3.1 Gen 2, etc would really do great.
If your workstation setup is using all 4 but you want to reduce port usage, I would look into one of those KB/mouse combos that only use one wireless dongle. The FW isn’t totally designed for full desktop usage, and the onboard mic is decent for portability, but if the USB mic is a necessity for you, then yes a hub is necessary.
If the hub is annoying even at a stationary desk, that FW16 coming later this year is probably going to be your best bet for a more rounded desktop workstation for you! It truly does look like a beast!
Even so, ports are blazing fast as it is, so a good external hub at a desktop configuration is fine in my book, but YMMV. 16" certainly is nice as well if the onboard monitor is your main/only monitor at the desk.
(Sorry for the novel!)
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This is great. Thanks!
I agree, it isn’t something I could do, but I am more worried about A, to be honest. That way a keyboard and mouse could be plugged into one.
I just brought out my TB4 Dock for my laptop again and trying to get that to work through my KVM wasn’t fun but I have it working now. So if I am traveling and need something, I have a little travel USB C dock with like 3 additional A ports, ethernet, and like SD card if needed.
I can never go away from my Moonlander Mk1 now. The ergonomic keyboard is the best thing ever, but it doesn’t have a mouse combo with it.
This right here. I can’t do the 13 in. I think the 16 should be great for me and I have been telling all my friends. I am trying to offload a Razer Blade Pro with a 3070 so that I can try to pick up the 16 once it releases.
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That is a nutty keyboard, sir. I have never tried one of these types of ergonomic KB’s, and I am skeptic enough to not buy one just to test it. I gotta find one I can demo for a couple hours and see if it works for me. That one looks really nice!
Definitely tell your friends! That ol’ Razer probably is gonna be great in someone you know’s hands, see if you can get someone to swipe it off of you for a good price. As for your FW13, keep it. Its a great little portable ultrabook for on-the-go stuff, and if the FW16 is what you typically go with even for flights/car trips despite its larger size, the FW13 can still be used as a nice little home server! You can even gut it and stick the board in the newly announced Cooler Master case (like I plan to do with my 1260p when my Ryzen 7 board kit arrives) and mount it behind a monitor for a nice streamlined server workstation / NAS controller
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It took like a week to get used to it, but now I can’t go back. It works great for when I need tmux because I just make a layer for it.
I saw but I don’t have one yet haha
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Yeah I thought the CM case was for the 13 in boards for those that upgrade. I meant I didn’t have a 13, but I’ll be getting a 16, I know that.
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Yeah, its the FW13 board case, with no room for the battery (but you can still attach one apparently, or use the 3D STL model on the forum here and edit it for battery room, or wait for their battery enclosure, etc). It’ll be a good stationary minimalist server PC for me!
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After so many messages… I’m still trying to understand what is the current blocker. Is it the size of the board to contain the hub chip? Is it the required thickness and max maneuverability of the wires?
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My summary of this thread is the following:
USB A is too large to fit in a (standard height) two port expansion card.
Two USB C ports would physically fit, but they require a bunch of electronics behind them. How much electronics depends on what you want the ports to do.
Two USB C ports that only support USB 2 stuff (mouse, keyboard, slow thumb drives,…) is the most realistic option, but I don’t know if there’s anyone actively pursuing it.
Charging is difficult, because laptops don’t charge like cheap dumb USB devices that just receive 5V and do no communication. The Framework Laptop charges using USB C Power Delivery (PD), which works at higher voltages and requires communication. Since the second USB port might still need to run at 5V, we would also need to fit some voltage conversion in the expansion card.
Higher speeds and things like DP alt mode would require even more chips inside this tiny space. USB C needs to be reversible which might require additional chips. In addition to that, there’s a chip shortage, those chips might be expensive and there’s basically no one to buy this product, at least not at the scale where developing it would be anywhere near profitable. Significantly higher/larger expansion cards might help with space issues, but there are even fewer people interested in those.
TLDR: Dual USB A doesn’t fit, double USB C cards that support even just charging require too much electronics that take up too much space to fit in the expansion card.
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Thank you very much for the summary, AnotherBoringUser.
From what I can gather, we have enough space for plugs and electronics to provide a dual Type-C USB3 without PD and limited to the default 5V and not charging back to the laptop. Did I get that right? Does that solution not satisfy enough people? I know it’s a compromise but that’s enough to plug two external drives or 2 USB sticks or a mouse and a hard drive. I think, even with this limitation, it’s already a huge advantage because, realistically, the majority uses an external mouse and many have interest in plugging an external drive. This would allow having those connected and still have 2 plugs available for other miscellaneous USB devices. Am I missing something here?
There should barely exist enough space for a USB5742 and the plugs with just enough space for ribbon cable wires to connect everything as USB3 without PD. At least, that’s the measurements I’m getting.
Am I missing something or miscalculating?
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Am I missing something or miscalculating?
Yes, the thing about either needing a separate MUX chip to manage the reversability of USB-C or alternatively using a 4-Port Hub with 2 ports being wired to the 2 sides of each port. See USB-C done cheap: when 2 ports become 1 | RichardG's Ramblings for the technical details.
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I guess I misread the specs of USB5742. I thought it also handled the reversibility of the Type-C plug. I also only expected the USB3 Gen1 or maybe Gen2 speeds (what a terrible name 
). If we need a 2nd (mux) chip, then I guess it really is tighter than I thought. I do still wonder if ribbon cables would fit…
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