Thanks for the info. Waiting for the 4 to come back in stock 
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Am I the only one who thinks that 1Kg ‘range’ per iteration is rather WIDE?
Take the 3.3Kg nominal set for example. Off the assembly line, one unit could be at 3.8, and another unit at 2.8. That’s 25%-35% difference depends on how you look at the numbers.
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Nope, a 1kg range on a 3.3kg target…
yeah. But the tolerance (set by framework) is 3.3kg/cm (torque), plus or minus 0.5kg/cm.
But, consider how the hinge is made, even a very slight difference in the brackets can lead to … well, frankly, more than 0.5kg/cm differences.
However, these numbers doesn’t mean you will have, say, 50 minimum and 50 maximum (out of a run of 100 hinge). What’s more likely is that the hinges will be spread along a Gaussian Distribution, and thus only a tiny portion (less than 0.5%) of them will be close to the min/max boundary. Those numbers can be considered “absolute worst case”, since anything outside of that boundary will be scrapped.
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The likelihood of the distribution is an assumption for all we know.
…Because you’re assuming that 3.3kg/cm is the only target.
What we don’t know is whether it’s a binning selection process. where the actual production of the hinge has an even wider range, and then they bin the 2.8-3.8kg/cm for Framework…and then just shaped / cut the hinge attachment brackets to spec.
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I go to a weekly developer meetup, and everyone there who was considering a Framework has decided to hold off based on all the annoyances with mine. The hinge being the biggest one.
Every time I go to pick up or move my laptop to show someone something, the screen droops.
And outside of the meetups, it continues to frustrate me on a daily basis. If I use it on my lap, it droops while I’m typing. If I walk it it, it falls after a few steps. If I pick it up or lay it down, it falls.
Stack that on top of:
- The touchpad doesn’t click properly if you’re holding the laptop from one side, or the laptop isn’t level on your lap (because the frame flexes)
- If you let the battery discharge fully, it sometimes will not turn on unless you discover and use the workaround of plugging in two chargers at once to get around a bios bug
- Some keys rattle like crazy when the speakers play low frequencies, making it a terrible experience for music. (Was able to mitigate this to some extent by removing the tab key and bending the stabilizer a little).
- The microphone cutting out inconsistently based on how much the lid is opened, and randomly outputting loud static to the people in my calls.
From a first experience, this feels like a nicely built laptop. But the more I use it, the more I realize it has worse build quality than a $300 Chromebook.
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@Daniel_Power - have you engaged Support regarding these issues?
If the hinges are floppy, I would expect that they would be replaced. In the worst case scenario, you could pick up replacements out of pocket - which you should not have to do if they are faulty, but if you get into a back and forth about whether or not they are, you do have an option, even if you don’t think that you should have to take it.
The battery issue is a challenging one. I’m currently letting my family machine sit to see if I can reproduce it. It’s still not completely clear if some systems are more susceptible to it than others, but it seems that way.
Have you checked with Support regarding the rattling keys? Also, there is a thread here with some EQ profiles that can be applied which are supposed to make the sound better and the sound-induced vibration less (if my memory is correct).
The mic issue also sounds like something for Support, but you also could check the connection to the board to see if that helps at all.
I use my primary heavily every day and have been very happy with it. Yes, I have had some issues, but I was able to resolve them with help from Support, and the machine is humming along now. It’s much nicer than most of the various chromebooks that I have had over the years. I can think of only one that was nicer, but that machine was replaced twice due to hardware issues. The third one so far has held up.
Edit to add - I forgot about the trackpad click item. Mine does not seem to do that, but admittedly I just tested it quickly. The are some how-to articles on adjusting the trackpad that may be of help, but if not, that does not seem normal, so hopefully Support could help.
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So new Gen12 laptops still have a 3.3kg/cm hinge, but the new CNC top cover?
So I want to give an update to my previous post. I’ve since contacted support, and they sent a replacement hinge. I also purchased a replacement touchpad.
Every time I go to pick up or move my laptop to show someone something, the screen droops.
And outside of the meetups, it continues to frustrate me on a daily basis. If I use it on my lap, it droops while I’m typing. If I walk it it, it falls after a few steps. If I pick it up or lay it down, it falls.
I contacted support, and they were very responsive. They requested some video evidence to show the severity of the problem, which is perfectly reasonable. I sent them a video showing that the screen falls under its own weight. They agreed the hinges were defective and sent new ones.
When I received the new hinges, they were fantastic. I responded to support stating that it had resolved the problem completely. Over time however, the new hinges have gotten worse. They’re not quite as bad as the old ones yet, but they gradually get looser over time.
The screen will fall under its own weight if opened to around 160 degrees. It’s worse when the laptop is running warm, such as when compiling code. But so far it’s not interfering with my usage like the old hinges were. I’m disappointed they wouldn’t replace the old hinge with the 4.0kg hinge.
The touchpad doesn’t click properly if you’re holding the laptop from one side, or the laptop isn’t level on your lap (because the frame flexes)
This issue also continued to get worse over time. By the time I received the replacement part, I could barely get clicks to register at all. Replacing the touchpad solved this issue completely. Which confirms it was a defective touchpad.
If you let the battery discharge fully, it sometimes will not turn on unless you discover and use the workaround of plugging in two chargers at once to get around a bios bug
I haven’t had this happen since updating the BIOS. So this issue appears to be resolved.
The microphone cutting out inconsistently based on how much the lid is opened, and randomly outputting loud static to the people in my calls.
Customer support suggested I remove and re-install the webcam module to ensure the connections were good. This resolved the problem completely. So it was just a loose connection from the factory it seems.
All in all, the Framework is a laptop that is almost exceptional. But it’s marred by a series of quality control issues. I’m glad I was able to so easily replace the faulty parts, but on a laptop in this price range, it’s pretty surprising just how many faults there are.
And even moreso to see that the new replacement hinges are degrading, and in a few months will probably become just as unusable as the old ones.
I want to see Framework succeed. I don’t regret my purchase. But I’m going to need to see some strong evidence that more focus is being put on quality control before I consider upgrading or buying another.
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So I was thinking about getting the 4.0kg hinges, but then I read …
So does that mean that in the worst-case scenario I’m getting weaker hinges (4.0 - 0.5 = 3.5) as are currently installed (3.3 + 0.5 = 3.8)?
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hmmm, imho this should be avoided …
I always lose in a lottery.
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If you feel that you hinges are really loose, then its likely you landed lower in the distribution and should see an improvement with the 4kg.
But feelings aren’t very objective. What’s loose for one person can perfectly fit for another.
But nvm. as I currently would just get them because of I feel like I would need it, I’ll stick to the stock hinges for now. Maybe until I order more stuff I’ll just add them.
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I think my replacement hinges have also started getting loose, the screen falls over more easily again…
I too was hoping to get the 4.0 kg hinges with my replacement but unfortunately that seems to still not be an option Framework will provide.
If I now bought the 4.0 kg I would own 3 sets of hinges… Would have paid mostly for cost of shipping and still could end up with lower force hinges!
Stable screen > one hand opening.
Well, if I would have enough hinges, I would try to squeeze them or somehow try to make them more tight.
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I was thinking to try and improve the old hinges since my replacements are getting loose but I’m not too sure of a good long-term solution. I would like something that can be fastened so it cannot flex but the space is limited…
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Two of my friends recently both bought Frameworks. And their hinges are so much better than mine. Which makes me wonder if I managed to get a faulty set when I bought my laptop, followed by another faulty set as a replacement from customer support -_-
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Thanks @Framework for the transparency in communication!
I think everyone in the community appreciates your desire to make your customers happy by releasing alternate parts for alternate use-cases / experiences.
I love my Framework laptop, which is why I came here to say that lid resonance is a functional issue. As we all know, laptops are intended for mobile computing which means they will not always be used in completely static situations. There will be dynamic environments (hand-carrying, car-transport, plane-transport, etc.) where the laptop will be used frequently (daily commute). Those dynamic environments will have common and uncommon perturbations to the laptops’ lid and hinge mechanism. I can appreciate that understanding what forces and perturbations are common vs. uncommon is challenging, but it is important work for this to truly be considered a mobile laptop.
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