Yeah, if you bought a Shelby GT500, or at that price point from Ford, why wouldn’t one have that expectation (e.g. compare to a Portofino at more than double the price point)? Mind you, the issue here really is where that money went to as MJ1 indicated. The balance (lack of balance) went pretty much all the way to “supreme repairability”…that there’s not a lot of ‘meat’. It’s not like I’m expecting an OLED or miniLED with 98%+ adobeRGB though. It’s the intersection between price, 2025, sub 95% sRGB, off the chart repairability, poor battery life…it’s extremely unbalanced in terms of what it is offering, IMO. Up-front value has never been Framework’s strong suit. Personally, I was hoping a lower price point would shift that balance a little, but here we are.
Overall, I maintain the position that for something to worth repairing, it needs to steer the owner / user to have a desire to continue using it (whatever that may be, computers, oven, fridge…etc). If something as a product is too subpar for its core functionality, it doesn’t matter even if it’s just $1 to repair it. Granted, the colour space itself is still useful / does the job for some, but personally, I have strong believe that in 2025, nothing should be less than FHD (this checks the box), and nothing should be sub 95% sRGB (just my personal preference). Value and spec have to move with time. At the end of the day, it’s just not for me. Maybe v2 of the FL12 will have a better display.
It’s been said before, but it bares repeating, one has to remember that the FWL12 was not designed for us. It was clearly made with a focus on the utmost repairability. Many complaints people here have matter much less for the original target market. Now, Framework has said that they’ve seen a lot of interest outside of the original target, so I feel they will certainly be thinking about adding features.
I think FL12 is still a general purpose laptop, not a repairability technology demonstration prototype (although it can be in some ways). FL13 is more balanced
You’re right…but that’s a double-edged sword…because now that means FL13 users’ request for touch screen / 2-in-1 / pen support has been ignored for quite some time (ignore the user base…and go after a new one), and that Framework decided to put the effort into another product line instead. Essentially implying the FL13 design is form-factor-locked in. (i.e. No hinge & display & lid assembly conversion kit to shift FL13 into a 2-in-1…yet)
Did FW ever say anything to even suggest otherwise?
Keeping the same shell that remains fully compatible with components was supposed to be a major feature, that users could rely on.
FW creating an entire alternate shell, base, top cover, bezels (in the multitude of colors they have, I might add), hinge assembly, perhaps even input cover, which all remains compatible with the mainboard, the cooler, and other parts, is a rather larger ask. Especially when considering the fan intake on the bottom… which would be blocked. Yeah, not so easy. I’d wager it might not happen.
As far as a seemingly simple touchscreen option for the FWL13, I’ve suspected they may have tried and ran into issues. Namely, that the wobble of the screen, resonance as they call it, just can’t provide a good user experience with a touchscreen. Wobble, just in regular use was a complaint early on, and they introduced tighter hinges to help, but wobble doesn’t only come from hinges. The stiffness of the lid and the lower frame play in. These are things that are harder and more expensive to try to fix then just releasing tighter hinges.
You don’t want to add extra bulk to the thickness by doing that. As being able to easily and comfortably hold 2-in-1s is quite important. Look at the FWL12, and other 2-in-1s, they have screens that fold close to flush to keep it thin and comfortable to hold as possible. And they are designed around needing to channel both exhaust and intake to the edge.
A 13" premium 2-in-1 might come eventually, but really unlikely to arrive as a variation of the current FWL13 with something like a conversion kit available.
I don’t think anyone suspected there would be a desktop either. With soldered ram to boot.
FL13 user base with wobble lid / display and no touchscreen (regardless of the numerous feature request threads over the years).
I sometimes wonder if the current chassis design has hit a wall of sorts, because it sounds as though it’s pretty much set in stone. (Not like a Civic where you can get kits after kits…) Maybe we need a FL13 platform v2 (e.g. up-firing speakers, better speakers where they can flip up or down depending if you have v1 or v2 FL13 chassis, stiffer hinge attachment points, , 2-in-1 conversion capable…etc.)
The FWL13 was their first design, bringing us something no one else has done, even now. I think it did supremely well, all things considered. But perfection is too much to ask for.
I imagine they have a list of things they would change a bit to improve this or that, if they were to design it today. When enough time has passed, and the benefit provided by changes is enough, I imagine the frame and maybe platform as a whole will get a 2nd iteration.
We can see a couple things already. With the FWL16, they changed the expansion card latch release to a switch. And that was continued forward with the FWL12, because it’s just better. FWL16 also brought bolt tensioned hinges. Expect those to be carried forward. Then, in turn, the FWL12 introduces it own general improvements. Pogo pins everywhere possible. So users can avoid regularly handling delicate ffc cables and connectors. Captive screws just short of everywhere. Bright clear markers showing many screw locations. I’d be surprised if the next laptop doesn’t in turn carry many of these forward. At some point, I think it will loop around to a FWL13 refresh.
Again the pricing on Framework is … highly interesting.
$650 for “street spec” with 12GB of RAM and 1TB 2230 SSD is not bad. +$40 for 8GB of DDR5 is very steep. So is +$100 for 512GB of storage. Your school student do not need a WD Black. You don’t need a WD black. Neither do I. But. you know.
Don’t treat it like a glorified Chromebook, I think. And then everything will be ok.
nobody is making a absurd CNC steel lid that weigh like half a pound. I think it’s just a issue insignificant enough to warrant any serious effort. Kind of like the chassis flex on the 16. I 3D printed some feet, and is leaning into bolting steel plates to the thing. But it didnt really worsen (and the feet 300% helped), so I just stopped there.
I might still look into that, but this will require not having my laptop for a few days for me to reverse-engineer the structural places to drill and tap screws. It’s for “not right now”.
You can probably find a aftermarket panel that does it. I feel like the current one’s purpose is to keep the cost down. which is fine.
I actually have that chassis for my wife’s laptop. It’s almost certainly the same laptop other than the upgraded specs. Cost $500 5 years ago and came with an i5 1035g7, 1080p IPS screen and both replaceable RAM and SSD but otherwise looks identical. It was fine then and still kicking today. It wasn’t a bad buy then and I don’t regret the purchase.
Is there any indication on when this is also true for the motherboards?
I want to upgrade (to the Ryzen 9 model) and send the old 11th Gen Intel board to a new life as a Proxmox host, but I am facing the odd situation that the webshop lists the board as purchaseable but prohibits me from purchasing it unless I am buying a whole laptop. Via a quick popup message that appears later when attempting to checkout. First it just said something to the effect of “your orders are from two separate warehouses and we only support orders from one right now”. So I yeeted the mainboard figuring it has to come from Taiwan and I’ll order that separately. Then the order of parts sans the mainboard went through fine. But I am not able to order the mainboard. Leaving me with a bunch of parts I can’t use and a time horizon of “shrug” for when I’ll be able to actually order the very thing (listed as available ) that motivated me to order the other bits.
Customer support says it’s not in stock and I should check periodically on the webshop to see if it has come into stock since they have no information on when that will happen, which is a… curious catch 22 situation since the webshop says it is in stock until the point you try to actually execute the shopping basket. That’s why I tried buying it, after all…
Edit for followup: looks like the webshop peeps have sorted it - that board is now tagged as “Coming soon” and has an option to get e-mailed when in stock. Thanks!
) that motivated me to order the other bits.