Framework laptop build quality / quality control issues

Hi, all existing Framework users,

I was really excited and almost want to order a Framework laptop now. However, the more I read the forum, the more I feel that Framework might have some built quality/quality control issues that even make it not reliable enough to be a daily driver.

For instance, A_Fan has mentioned in his post.

My question is:

(1) Is the framework laptop improved over batches? Or do these problems still exist?

(2) Should I think in the way that the framework laptop at Nirav Patel, Framework Founder’s hand is perfect in functionality perspective in Windows system? The laptops in the current customers’ hands are just quality control issues? And framework company can fix all the issues for customers?

Hope this post can be a poll and give me some knowledge of the status quo and let me decide whether or not I should order a framework laptop right now, or wait more time until it is mature enough to be reliable? Thanks.

My goal is to use the Framework laptop as a daily driver. Thanks

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Hi Regarding the big issues

I bought a batch 8 of the 11Gen i11165 with Win 10

  • Upgraded to Win11 _ though I don’t like Win 11
  • Dual booted Ubuntu 22.04LTS on an 256GB expansion card
  • Received in Feb so only 3 months old
  • Used and switched on and off or hibernate multiple times a day.
  • Every two weeks travel for a few days in my backpack

Absolutely no problems apart from the boring generic look :frowning:

Been using laptops since 1996, never had a desktop.
Started with 2 x 33MHz CPU 32MB RAM £2,500

They have only got better and cheaper and this is undoubtedly the best I’ve had apart from it’s dull looks.

All the best

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Don’t forget you can get a skewed perception from forums, like with product reviews, satisfied customers are less vocal than dissatisfied customers so consider that.

It seems like there have been improvements with the batches but it is hard to say without having the data.

I have not had problems with powering on or resuming. I did however have the laptop shutdown while creating my user account during the install for W10 for no apparent reason. Maybe because I refused to give it internet access? :smiley: otherwise it was fine.

Bottom line? Try it out for yourself but do it knowing that you might have some issues or like @amoun you might have no problems at all. You have a month to send it back if you have problems and support have generally been quite good.

Basically a Macbook clone :smiley:

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I have a batch 8 machine and apart from the microphone needing replacing I am very pleased with my framework laptop, running Ubuntu 22.04 which is solid. As far as comments on the forum I think they need to be read carefully as a hand full of bad comments compared to hundreds of happy customers that aren’t so vocal :grin:

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There was a thread here where someone asked users to chime in if they’ve had no problems with their Framework. There were quite a few responses.

As @Usernames says, the forum skews perspectives. You’re not going to post here to say that everything’s going fine - in fact if it is, you’re more likely to not even join the forums at all. You’re far more likely to join and post if you have issues.

I saw a good statement the other day: “hospitals are full of sick people!” If you judged a population’s health by their hospitals you’d think everyone’s sick…

Also here you have far more tech-savvy users than the average Acer buyer at Best Buy. They’re far more likely to try advanced things other laptops just wouldn’t support at all, and far more likely to come here if they’re having issues. Can’t install Linux on a Chomebook you bought at Costco? You’re on your own. Can’t install Fedora 36 on the Framework laptop? You come here.

I’m not saying there can’t be some serious issues - if I had the “cannot turn on unless on charger” bug I’d be upset too. But I don’t have this issue, and lots of others don’t either. It’s far from universal.

I can also say that behind the scenes, Framework does really care (shoutout to @TheTwistgibber)!

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Framework is an awesome company and product. They are only a little over a year old, but have addressed any growing pains headon. Their customer service and transparency are something that you do not often see anymore. I highly recommend them. i5-1135G7 DIY - LM Cinnamon Edge is installed and worked out of the box.

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Framework has said that they’ve been very transparent in their communications. So what’s the reason to believe that there’s quality improvment between, say, batch 8 against ealier batches other than the audio codec chip?

This may help . . . I mean the whole topic not just the post I quoted.

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So are we saying that earlier batches are relatively (containing more) duds in comparison to later batches…and Framework is just passively waiting for customers to experience issues and reach out to them? Without any announcements?

(Yes, I’m sounding like a prick…I know)

Shouldn’t there be [official] public notes of “Known issues from batch x”…and “Here are the steps to see if your unit is affected”…etc?

There was one note around changes made between batch 1 and 2 (IIRC)…but nothing much after that until audio chip changes.

The thermal pad for expansion card was a relatively quieter (subjectively) notice / post.

Well you said it, but then who isn’t so is there any problem with Framework joining the party :tada:

I don’t know, that is for sure however https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-early-framework-laptops/4551 the complaints of loose hinges seems to be early batches, the CNC lid that is meant to be an improvement perhaps in response to the reports of broken screens early on, there was a support thread about it I think. That is the feeling I get from the forums.

Yeah, that was the early time for Framework…when they wanted community support. (I placed my batch 2 order around that time)

The communication felt transparent back then…I’m not so sure about now (since Series A?).

That’s a comfortable feeling but you may find someone who is not so comfortable; and yet though in what appears to be a similar environment have wildy different expectations.

It’s all a state of mind.

That maybe so. Will have to see how that ‘quality’ improvement and ‘communication’ will be going forward…

I’m waiting to hear from Framework regarding some of the questions here:

The Matrix provides all we need so that we may provide for it. :sunglasses:

I tested this after you posted that, my 1135 thermal throttles and wont get past 51W so yeah I’m also not getting the 60W boots as expected.

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Yeah, that 60W boost is a bit of a pipedream… On paper, sure, the BIOS / firmware allows for 60W boost / PL2…but the thermal dissipation system is the bottleneck here it seems (for the 11th gen mainboard and fan combo). Not sure if the 12th gen mainboard has addressed this…and if so, how, and whether the solution can be retro-fitted back to the 11th gen mainboard.

p.s. Also, the other thing I noticed while on BIOS 3.07 with Windows 10 is that the PL1 would, for whatever reason, go from 28W down to 15W…then slowly get back to 28W with an increment of 0.5W every 5 seconds or so. Not sure what’s causing this.

From the pictures this looks unchanged, I think it would need more thermal mass to soak up the heat spike. I was considering looking at the thermal paste application and maybe apply some of my own but the factory one has decent conductivity from the specs shared by @Shiroudan

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Thank you guys for all your information and discussions. I ordered i5 version 12 gen batch 2 just now, it will be shipped in August. Wish all the best :smile:

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Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it! As others noted in the thread, forums, Reddit, and social tend to amplify issues, since the majority of the people using the product are actually using it instead of looking for help with it. We have a warranty (1 year in US and Canada and 2 years in UK and EU) and 30 day return policy to make sure folks know that if they have any issues with their product, we’ll resolve them. In addition to that, as seen in this thread, the community is super helpful and knowledgeable about the product and also happy to step in to help.

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Thanks, Nirav, I will share my thoughts here after using the laptop for a few months. Looking forward for it :grin: