Framework Laptops are now Thunderbolt 4 certified

@BusyBoredom I think the answer to that is a bit complicated - each of the TB4 ports can do full bandwidth on the low level, but since TB is a tunneling protocol, the stuff that is tunneled on top of that might be limited. I previously wrote a big blogpost on USB and TB that might help understand this, though I did not dig into total bandwidth limits for the framework laptop. I did write a bit on the limits on displayport bandwidth:

The USB-C ports are divided into two pairs, each pair sharing a single USB4 router / TB controller, and with two DP 4xHBR3 interfaces on each controller. This means at most two DP streams divided between the two ports in the pair (which includes both TB/USB4 tunnels and DP-alt-mode). [source, section 10, Framework uses UP3]

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Hmm interesting, ok thanks :slight_smile: That’s a really awesome writeup you’ve put together.

I guess practically speaking, putting an EGPU alone on one side and all other peripherals on the other should satisfy the vast majority of use cases without having to worry about possibly leaving EGPU bandwidth on the table.

Would be neat if someone from framework could chime with some definitive guidance on what the total bandwidth limitations are (across all 4 ports and per-side).

Hello, looking into getting the 12th gen, does this mean with the USB-C Expansion module, I can connect Thunderbolt 4 devices?

Short answer, yes! eGPUs, docks, storage devices…if it uses the protocol, it will connect.

Long answer, you could connect and use them near-perfectly (and in my experience perfectly) beforehand, even with the 11th gen. What this thread means is that Intel themselves are slapping a badge of honor on the laptop and saying “this passes our standards for a laptop that can connect to Thunderbolt 4 devices”. It’s a marketing point.


So it’s been almost 6 month now since this announcement.
Any updates on new BIOS release?


What it also means is that intel’s own hardware failed their own certification for the 11th gen, which is not particularly impressive.

Well, the ports don’t plug directly into intel hardware. There are other components along the path.


Since new gen products have recently been announced I think the company will focus on them primarily.
So can we consider Thunderbolt 4 certification for Gen 12 abandoned?

Are you sure that’s what you meant ???

Thunderbolt 4 certification for Gen 12 does exist for Gen 12 which is what this topic is about.

There isn’t a certificate for the previous Gen 11 although it is compatible


@amoun ok, but have you seen BIOS updates for Gen 12 laptop? You can reread the initial blog post of this thread for better understanding.

@timp87 - if you are comfortable installing beta firmware: 12th Gen Intel Core BIOS 3.06 Beta

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@lbkNhubert do you believe it will come out of beta some day?

I have no insight but would presume that it eventually will come out of beta. I’m on the 11th gen rather than 12th, and have been on the latest beta firmware for it since November. Each individual must assess his or her own risk tolerance when choosing whether to install the beta firmware or wait for the official release.

The question was “is the 12 Gen Thunderbolt certified”, the first post said that it is with 3.06. As pointed out the 3.06 may be Beta but it doesn’t downgrade the workings of Thunderbolt.

So are you saying that you don’t consider the 3.06 as a proper certification? It’s only Beta to ensure all works OK.

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@amoun I do consider 3.06 as a certification. When it comes out of beta of course.
Until 3.06 I don’t consider 12th gen certified at all. And now I really doubt they will ever release 3.06.

So you don’t consider it valid whilst it’s a Beta, why is that if it works, and it sure does as no-one has said otherwise after the best part of four months.

The other issue

I’m sure that is not the case : It may just be that the new BIOS to deal with the new battery is more pressing and that may be offered instead.

The issue again maybe you won’t like it if it’s a beta

So what so bad about accepting the Beta

I have a Gen 11 and always upload the Betas with no problem, so I’ve been on the 3.17 since Nov 2022

I’m not sure what Thunderbolt certification is so important for if it works anyway.

Holy cow, this is AMAZING!! A laptop with 4 fully functional Thunderbolt 4 ports is what I want… finally no issues anymore when I want to use Power Delivery over USB together with 2 external displays - something that is pretty much impossible to do with almost any laptop in existence. THANK YOU FRAMEWORK!!

Now for the love of god, deliver to Switzerland already and take my money…

Are there any updates on this? It’s been 10 months

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We are working on getting an update for you. Other threads are also being tracked for an update once I have one available. Thanks

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Oh, this will be excellent. I really want to make a mini Gaming™️ PC with enough horsepower for some flat screen gaming.

Not confident it can handle VR, though.