Framework supporting far-right racists?

[razzee]

Sending every non white person in England back to their origin country as DHH, suggests would not lead to deaths?

[2disbetter]

@lynnn

You can also read and follow the links specifically to what DHH is saying. I find it odd in a conversation about big tent inclusion to immediately exclude something without reading it, though.

Those thoughts being linked are subjectively interpreted. We can both read something and have very different opinions on it. That is not evidence of anything. Evidence is tangible. Not subjective. If DHH was really calling for the death of people that is a crime in most countries and he would have been prosecuted. As that has not happened, yes I am going to suggest that it is merely an opinion and not evidence of anything.

[lynnn]

We have different interpretations of how talking about The Great Replacement pans out for minorities then. I’ll concede that this is not something I can convince you of on a forum.

[jared_kidd]

@dumpsterqueen

If Framework is now knowingly giving money directly to far-right, anti-immigration fascists

I just want to point out there is nothing true in this statement. No such thing as far-right in current government (unless you consider anything right of your beliefs to be far-right, which is just silly), and immigration is completely fine, currently. My wife is an immigrant and non-us citizen and we have many immigrant friends. They are only deporting criminals, illegals, people who have broken the law.

[2disbetter]

@lynnn

I’ll concede that this is not something I can convince you of on a forum.

I think no one posting here is trying to be convinced of anything. Omarchy is a great Linux distro. That is not a political statement, nor should it be.

I am going to stop posting in this thread and just say that I fully support NRP’s comments. My prediction is that this thread will continue on with baseless claims and zero actual evidence. Furthermore, no matter how long this thread gets, it will most likely be one sided. Most folks that don’t agree with what is being suggested here also want nothing to do with it. I would say that only sales are evidence.

I think I’ll go order a Framework Desktop.

[Sammy]

Omarchy isn’t even a distro, it’s just some dotfiles and bash scripts.

But even if it was actually good, no matter how good something is, if it’s run by fascists it shouldn’t be supported.

[Fabian_Bornschein]

@2disbetter

I don’t think that is possible in the open source world. I think the open source world attracts mostly controversial figures.

It’s pretty easy. You just check if the project is led by a community of people, join the conversation room for a while and feel the vibe in there.

A bad indicator is always if a project is mainly led by a single person, more so if it’s not covered by an umbrella project that looks over it. And even more so if the projects upstream dislike them.

@2disbetter

I also don’t think any one person or organization can speak for open source. That is the whole point. Decentralized. Hundreds of thousands of people with varying ideas and beliefs made all of the software in the open source world.

Nobody can speak for the movement at all. We all are part of it, but everyone is able to decide who you trust, who you work with and what you do in general with your time in that space.

[razzee]

Why do you think this is US centric? DHH blog as linked above clearly states he supports the English far right.

[jared_kidd]

@Sammy

fascists

[jared_kidd]

I have loved the world of Linux since the first day I discovered it.
Having many different choices available is what makes it so great.

[Felix_Pehla]

What does it mean in your opinion then? He is a racist and ethno-nationalist that advocates for the ethnic cleansing of the UK by removing all non-white people. He also expresses his support for Tommy Robinson whose Wikipedia article calls him a fascist in the second paragraph. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is one.

[James3]

Why can’t everyone just calm down and get along.

1. it is near impossible to get someone to change their mind about something,
2. one can voice their opinion, but don’t expect it to change anyone else’s behaviour.
3. only they, themselves, can change their behaviour. Normally, that only happens if they learn something new.

So, the only way to effect change is to describe things in a way that let’s other people learn new things, if they wish to.

[Breizh]

Congratulations on the controversy that could have been avoided with a few minutes of research.

Especially since if you had just done nothing (without condemning this or that project or person, but without supporting them either), no one would have said anything, but now that you have supported them, your community will be divided: those who are asking you to withdraw your support, and those who will ask you to maintain it. Now you’re going to have to lose the support of one of the two sides. It’s up to you to decide which one you’d rather keep.

[cubic-crystal]

Thanks nrp,

Are you able to confirm that these kinds of chats, which took place in the official Hyprland Discord with the project lead Vaxry’s own participation and approval, are acceptable within the big tent Framework is happy to support and lend its brand to?

[JoFW12]

It is sad to see some of the reactions to this very valid concern. The official one is disappointing and the (mainly just two) people playing edgelord and injecting their racism-apologia in this thread is kind of poisoning this discussion board. I know, they want this to be the new normal in the US and many other countries, so the least I can do is to voice my disagreement. I don’t want money I spent on my Laptop to go to toxic dudes spreading fascist and racist ideology.

Buying a Framework was mainly a political decision, not an economic one. You don’t have to financially support people who are beyond »a little conservative«. I don’t know why you would bend over backwards to do it. It is damaging to your image.

[jared_kidd]

Has everyone noticed all these new users, and users who have not posted in years, suddenly posting in this thread, all trying to threaten Framework? It’s as if they have some echo chamber somewhere else on the internet commanding them to all come here and make it look like they are the majority. Seems like a temper tantrum to me. They already control the Framework discord, please keep all that hate over there. No one wants it here.

Anyway, this thread is a mess, if not entertaining.

[BLD]

@nrp

We don’t partner based on individuals’ or organizations’ beliefs, values, or political stances outside of their alignment with us on increasing the adoption of open source software.

Even not knowing what these people are really accused of and if it’s true or not, this is an absolutely horrifying stance.

Just replace « adoption of open source software » by « adoption of very good trains » during the 40’s, and the lack of decency of your sentence may scare you. You’re actually saying that you don’t care what softwares and money are used for.

I do care that softwares, money or trains can and will immediately be used to harm people by other people I work with or for, or to who I give my money. And I’ll never be sorry for feeling concerned about it.

However, I believe you wrote this « in good faith » without really thinking about the consequences of this stance.

And that you can change quickly this stance.

Because I hope that you build the hardware you build *because* you too, you feel concerned by your impact on the people and the world around you.

A few months back, I bought one of your laptops. It was the first brand new computer I bought for about twenty years! I did it because it was a political stance. Because the computers you build seem to care about the world around you. And me. I even made a credit for it. Please, don’t disappoint me.

[Foxboron]

I’m typing this from the Framework 13 development laptop that Nirav sent me 4 years ago. It was the basis for the original Framework archwiki page I wrote, and helped contribute a kernel patch that fixed a rather obscure firmware bug because of buggy ACPI tables. I think i spent.. 2 years trying to get it merged?

I’ve done my dues of free labour for this company.

[Greg_Molnar]

How is DHH a threat to the free software community? The guy made more free software than his critics will in their lifetime. He didn’t do any damage to the Ruby community and he doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the Ruby Central drama.

[lvtwn]

I bought a Framework Laptop 13 a little over a year ago. I was happy with my purchase, not because the device itself is so much better than the MacBook I was using before that. The MacBook had a longer battery life, had a faster CPU, etc, for the same price. No, I was happy with my purchase because it felt good to support a company that wanted the world of consumer electronics to be better, and they had proved themselves worthy, it seemed to me, with living up to the claim of releasing more motherboards for their at that point 4 year old laptops. My mother also needed a new laptop, and I also bought a FW13 for her.

A year after this, a lot has passed though. Namely; a friend has had their FW16’s mainboard die and Framework has refused to help, Framework has started to sponsor people that want me and my friends killed, deported, erased, whatever. Framework has then been confronted with this and has replied extremely poorly (see: a little higher up in this very thread).

When the time of purchasing a new laptop comes, I will certainly not even consider buying a Framework Laptop, unless they finally actually understand the situation and put their money where their mouth is (because part of the money they are donating is the money I used to buy two laptops) and just entirely omit sponsoring projects like these at all. They should - in my eyes - as a hardware company work on the hardware that - still - has quite a few flaws.