Hopefully, I really don’t want to watch FW go under. I just bought my laptop a year ago and I don’t wanna have to preemptively stock up on 10+ years of parts because of this.
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Hey! I’ve seen plenty of derailment in this thread, so I’ve decided to write a summary post about the situation, where I outline what I’ve seen happen, and why people react the way they do.
Hope that can help.
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Lol that’s it? Only “many thousands”?
- tesk.page/2025/07/25/gnome-calendar-a-new-era-of-accessibility-achieved-in-90-days
- github[dot]com/bottlesdevs/Bottles/graphs/contributors
- Merge requests by TheEvilSkeleton · GNOME / Settings · GitLab
- tesk.page/upscaler (personal)
- tesk.page/refine (personal)
For the record, GNOME is the most used and influential desktop environment on Linux, especially when it comes to progressing usability and accessibility on Linux (not undermining KDE Plasma and others). Bottles has over 3.4 million downloads (check Flathub). I maintain my personal website (also FOSS), and tried my best to make it as accessible and inclusive as possible.
So, this is coming from someone who’s wrote a lot more than “many thousands”, i.e. much more than you: Caring about basic human rights matters. Caring about inclusivity matters. The only reason why you’re even able to use Linux to begin with is because hundreds of contributors “who don’t care about that” (as you put it) put in the effort to make it ‘inclusive’ for us. Software is not just code - it’s a combination of code, marketing, designs, all of which are equally important and need to coexist.
Code is just a technical detail. The element that matters most is the politics of the maintainers. Allow me to tell you this bluntly: I don’t care how talented you are; if you don’t care about basic human rights, you are not welcome in any of the projects I work on.
If your goal is to be authoritative by shaming people who wrote 0 lines of code, then I will show my numbers and shame you, too. Legit, stop doing that.
(Do note that I can’t post more than two links in a comment)
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Been really wanting a Framework since I first found out about it. Love the fight you’re doing for the right to repair. Saved up as much as I could, promoted it to everyone I knew, finally preordered a 16 this morning, and then not even 5 minutes later I find out about this. I don’t want my money going to people who actively try to harm me and my community. This sucks man, and the lack of concern about the situation really isn’t helping. Please reconsider. 
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Yes, but this has nothing to do with Open Source, or Free Software. Neither Free Software or Open Source includes or excludes based on an individuals preferences about what is ethical. Like yours. If you think it should, You should instead then use the ethical licenses and go to that community instead of spreading toxicity in Open Source projects.
That’s messed up, this is OSS, literally every single contribution ever made matters, you shouldn’t insult someone for trying to work on the same projects you do.
(you too @rn1234)
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Way to go on ignoring everything else
So, this is coming from someone who’s wrote a lot more than “many thousands”, i.e. much more than you: Caring about basic human rights matters. Caring about inclusivity matters. The only reason why you’re even able to use Linux to begin with is because hundreds of contributors “who don’t care about that” (as you put it) put in the effort to make it ‘inclusive’ for us. Software is not just code - it’s a combination of code, marketing, designs, all of which are equally important and need to coexist.
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If your goal is to be authoritative by shaming people who wrote 0 lines of code, then I will show my numbers and shame you, too. Besides, what’s messed up is welcoming people who want innocent people dead, exiled, etc.
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All it took was one glance at his blog and wow. I was looking forward to framework opening sales to my market, but until they right the ship I am going to have to look other places for a repairable laptop.
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I’m old, I’m still hating on Intel for what they did to Randal L. Schwartz, I was not going to get an Intel CPU if I could help it.
At least Intel isn’t advocating for it.
Frankly, you aren’t going to find any actual good choices, pick your compromises.
Does this big tent approach also entail collaborating with Israel if you think that it’s going to improve the future of open source hardware & software? I just want to know where the line is drawn.
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Protest IS political, lmao.
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Just another disappointed Framework owner here adding to the list (so I’ll refrain from repeating a lot of stuff other people have said better than I ever could), but man has this completely drained all excitement I had for the company. Just got my FW12 like 11 days ago, and all I’m feeling right now is regret.
I (and many others who agree with me, from what I’m seeing) in no way expect framework to completely disavow conservatism or having “different” beliefs, we just expect a base level of research into and non-promotion of individuals and projects that are clearly and publicly controversial at best/spewing hateful rhetoric at worst.
As this (obviously) hasn’t been met, and subsequently has been doubled-down on, I definitely won’t be spending any more money on any framework product unless I see a meaningful change towards ensuring my money won’t go towards supporting or promoting groups/individuals that can’t agree on supporting basic human rights for everyone. The crux of open source software is the community, and without ensuring a civil and respectful environment for all its members it’s doomed to fail.
I feel that this isn’t a ludicrous ask, and I’m not quite sure how Framework let themselves end up in this position, but it really sucks that they chose to double down on this. I really liked the goal behind Framework and was trying to convince others in my family to go with a FW for their next laptop, but unless measures are taken to ensure a safe and respectful community for all I will be actively doing the opposite.
I just hope FW sees this and decides to put these systems in place, rather than try and hope everyone will forget about this (I sure won’t lol).
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Wtf
wow holy heck.
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Don’t gets your hopes up, by the situation now the entire volunteer mod team on discord resigned after these issue broke out, community divided by these issue and the silence of official frame.work keeps steering the situation toward worst.
Framework laptops are already considered a niche product since it’s not price competitive compared to other brands, and now the small community got divided hard.
I personally probably won’t support framework any further and I assume many share the same idea.
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This is a long thread as it is.
What I will put forward is we can’t leave politics out of OSS because every thing is OSS or FOSS is political.
And we’re talking about fascism and the far right. Some of the things that are going to be threatened are people we love and care for, even ourselves.
I’m the kind of person that DHH wants out of the country for instance.
I personally wouldn’t want to support a project that would support someone on the far right.
And DHH is pretty terrible of a person. (Edit: and has been terrible for some time.)
I’d like to think framework would be willing to support us and not support DHH with a free hardware.
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Some people have to make EVERYTHING political. I’m thankful for Framework being able to stay out of it. Don’t cave to the pressure. They are a loud minority. Hyprland is a great WM. Their Discord is properly moderated these days and I haven’t seen anything remotely controversial since all of this was addressed years ago.
I won’t said framework is now on life support but by the situation now and they handle backlash by stay silent, frame.work is definitely on its way to ICU.
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Agreed, people are simply voting with their wallets on what they want to see.
It’s not enough to be simply FOSS or OSS, especially when it relates to real harms.
Framework wouldn’t lose anything by not supporting two projects that are run by folks who are unethical, or involved in the far right as one of them is.
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Thanks Arya! Just had a read.
I also read this thread.
As one person says in response,
”We can either make the tech community a safe space for non-whitedudes, or for racists like him. We can’t do both. Allowing him to exist in the community is a hostile position. A lot of people have been doing work to exclude him and others like him, like Uncle Bob and Lunduke, but we have been overwhelmed by people who are willing to tolerate them, or minimize their harms, and it’s frustrating.”
And I think this is probably the approach to take.
Already in the Rails and Ruby community there are calls to do a hard fork of Ruby in order to divest from him. This is going to be a hard process but people have had enough, especially now.
Edit: The sad part of all of this is this was all known 10 years ago and folks did nothing till now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIaQxJ55yps
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