Framework supporting far-right racists?

im not sure most of us are here over the hyprland thing. it sure doesnt help, but most of us are here because you directly supported dhh’s “project” with a hardware donation and HEAPS of marketing. this needs to be addressed and this statement is incredibly disappointing and doesnt really address any of the concerns we have

i dont want to just endlessly repeat what everyone else is saying, so here’s something i havent seen many people talk about, if any. doesnt omarchy basically just being an extremely bare-bones arch install script with a collection of someones personal dotfiles almost make frameworks endorsement worse than if it was an actual distro? there are only so many distros, but there are literally hundreds of thousands of peoples published dotfiles out there, why laser focus on the heavily marketed one made by a gross fascist that proudly displays supergrok on the landing page?

its weird, i get industry plant vibes. surely this particular config of hyprland isnt so good that it deserves to be promoted by framework more than any distro before it? not to mention the publicity it got outside of framework; it had people that have never even heard of a tiling window manager before or even considered using linux praising it like its 2004 and ubuntu just released. it makes me feel like framework (and potentially nirav) care less about the “distro” and more about sucking up to dhh, but i dont want to be conspiratorial. regardless, dhh is not someone you should ever want to impress or even be around

i mean, come on, you showed omarchy running on the fw12 and had krita open with writing on it that says the pen works on omarchy-- like, yeah of course it does? thats like saying your keyboard works on mint, like… i sure hope so..? that seems really weird, unnecessary, and kind of brown-nosey, which makes me extra super careful about how i treat framework as a brand (by which i mean, not supporting or promoting in any way) until frameworks omarchy endorsements are dead and gone with a proper statement

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i would like to point out that this list includes “rails world”, a conference about ruby on rails, of which DHH is a speaker at …

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He created Ruby on Rails, he’s been a speaker at most RoR conferences…

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he’s also been uninvited from many others that are actually sensible. the point is framework is monetarily supporting DHH.

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This is just not correct.

Framework does not support him monetarily.

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Really? Which ones?

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They don’t mention Omarchy or DHH in their sponsorship blog post: https://frame.work/bg/en/blog/framework-sponsorships

=> they don’t send money to either the project or the person

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he’s also been uninvited from many others that are actually sensible and care about people. the point is framework is monetarily supporting DHH.

i am obviously referring to the conference which he is speaking on, which is on that list,

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You state again he’s been uninvited from “many other” conferences. Please mention a couple. I did a quick search and didn’t see any news about that.

actually i didn’t mean to say that again, i just cant edit my posts because of the stupid half an hour cooldown on all replies (including edits) means i can’t fix that

for your information the conference is RailsConf, of which “Rails world” which, framework is monetarily supporting, was created directly in response too him being uninvited. primarily by DHH, so he could promote his fascists distro, and other shit there,

he also interestingly, talks about “big tents” on his blog while talking about it, which im sure is just a coincidence

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Thanks for clarifying that. I would encourage you to look into recent sources instead of relying on outdated information

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This was indeed a pretty inflammatory title, hope it was a learning experience @anarcat

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I would like to ask the community where is the good place to sell my Framework laptop?

@nrp Instead of sponsoring other brands, I would say you should start from yourself. As a CEO of a brand that creates a movement, you need professional coaching to recognize that you’re building a community, not just a brand. Brands are political, and if you’re trying to deny this - you’re just a nerd, not a CEO.

Your current stance looks like your closer to a robot, than a human-being and is alienating users and is already harming the brand. I’d suggest to re‑evaluate the recent decisions, issue a public apology, and focus on community building, and make your customers happy. If you don’t, I will sell my Framework and, like many others on this forum, actively warn potential buyers.

I want to point out something that everyone on this forum who has purchased a Framework laptop knows: the devices feel cheap, are plastic, and are overpriced. We buy them because we support your mission of creating modular, repairable laptops—it’s a community‑driven decision. You’re not Apple, so don’t act like Apple. Without community you’re nothing.

When you act unreasonably and appear to support racist viewpoints, you risk alienating that community. As I’ve said, we all recognize the plastic, low‑quality feel of the hardware; so buying Framework it’s not laptop itself, it’s the community.

A brand cannot be separated from politics. Brands carry cultural and political meaning, which is why people identify with, love, and take pride in the brands they choose.

Don’t be so self‑focused, issue an apology. I will keep my Framework and buy another one if you do it.

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Let’s also remember that Framework is still a private, VC-backed company with mostly undisclosed investors. We don’t know who Nirav has to answer to for the most part.

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If this was a criminal case in court the prosecution can’t just slap a few more criminal charges on the defendant just because other people have committed them “in a package”.

I’m sure you’ll understand why people are upset when unproven accusations are thrown at someone in Europe just because more than a half a century ago there was a war with Nazis on one side.

We have had a lot wars between states during the centuries and millennials. We don’t view them with the same emotional baggage.

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As a side note to the debates, I am sadden to see that the political conflict in the US has permeated every part of the civil society.

Here we are, on a forum were I was expecting passionate technical discussions from hobbyist and professional computer geeks, and the biggest topic by far is a 1519 messages (at time of writing) political thread.

I do not want to take side nor undermine the gravity of some of the political events happening. I just feel that every little corner that was left untouched by the humdrum of the world is being thrown into the maelstrom of it. I am not saying neither that we should not care nor be engaged. Just that I needed that little hobby space to take a break from it once in a while. Now it just feels like an inflammation that has reached every last part of the body.

Well, I guess I could also have ignored the 1519 (now 1520 thanks to my contribution) messages long thread, and continue looking for what I was here for…

PS: yes, I am not naive : computers are information technology and information technology is a political beast. But computers are also fun and useful, and I am fine sharing a passion with people whose views I don’t agree with. It kind of recreates the bridges and connections that have been severed otherwise.

Peace out, and good luck to the moderators :victory_hand:t3:

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The team’s statement is deeply disappointing. By choosing not to take a clear stance against bigotry, you’re effectively enabling it - whether intentionally or not. Neutrality isn’t possible when your actions directly support harmful individuals or ideologies.

I had considered purchasing a notebook, but I can’t in good conscience support a company that fails to address these issues responsibly.

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I am feeling a lot more inclined to investing in other projects at this time. (Projects that nevertheless include all the major points that initially gave me hope for investing in Framework: Repairability, Focus on Open Source and Linux, and a degree of care).

Now, FW has a very different beginning than other hardware companies, and I feel that there is an aspect related to their roots that limits the degree of care they are able to implement as a company (even if the individuals forming the company are perfectly in agreement with this sort of care).

I would like to define what I mean by care, and how and what about FW’s origin I mean when I say that it limits its care.

Care I mean as the amount of work done to protect from harm those things that we value. The things we want to protect and see thriving. What are those things? At the base of the common human agreement, there are pretty obvious things, that are nevertheless immensely important, and constantly abused and taken for granted in companies of a certain size and power. Things like nature, our planet, worthy lives for those that live here. Respect for a common, shared space and its inhabitants I will repeat that is not a trivial ask, and that most companies blatantly disregard the milisecond their power is at stake.

But this super broad base is perhaps just the place where we can all meet without much considerations for specific alignments on how such a reality is built. From this common base that is easy to agree on, we negotiate a variety of approaches for defining how our care resources should be distributed.

I am grateful that FW shows obvious signs that they are ready to deploy resources that protect and cultivate parts of our common space that we value. They clearly are wanting to engage on some of this work of preservation when dealing with our platforms for collaboration (FOSS) and their potential for liberating and empowering humans, and when dealing with our shared material footprint (repairability). Unfortunately I see their hands tied and their mouths shut when the platforms for collaboration that they are wanting to nurture happen to be dependent of a bigger, deeper collaboration among humans, one that happens to be some of the present battlefronts where humanity is debating how can we exist together in a current world of extremely difficult inequality. Our collaboration to make software of course inherits plenty of the complications that the “main issue” of human collaboration proposes, and in a time where the worthy lives of many are at stake, it’s something that, if ignored, leaves a very obvious trace.

“The care that we are promoting ends here. We no longer have an intention to engage in the caring work after this line”

In the case of Framework, their line was acknowledging that DHH might not be the best community member to partner with, as would be anyone that defends the exclusion of a part of a population for the sake of a cultural purity, or a suposed race. Their inability to engage on a constructive conversation about how the views of community members in positions of power can be problematic for the community means a portion of this community is going to not be actively protected by FW. Even if people at FW end up responding to situations of direct harm later on, leaving this topic unattended without acknowledging that there is a real possibility for harm leaves FW in a strange place.

Now I think the reason for this strange line has to do with FW’s foundation as a venture capital funded company. I think that the undisclosed truth about shareholder centered enterprises, beyond there being good intentions, beyond there being a nice aim and a nice project and plenty of good work. Shareholders, at the end of the day, optimize for profit. Shareholders optimize for growth. At what expense? At the expense of some of the care that the company is able to cultivate. I think that Omarchy having a lot of attention has meant that catering to the possible customers there is much more beneficial to FW in terms of growth than engaging in the conversation that their community has spent hours and hours laying down across different channels (sometimes more eloquently and sometimes less).

This is not an accusation to FW of being ethical “only to the point that it doesn’t affect sales”. I only know the goals that they state themselves. In their last response, their closest attempt to engaging in this discussion is point 3, saying

“Before we sponsor an organization, we will continue to research and confirm that as they currently exist, they uphold appropriate community standards and are structurally set up for that to continue to be the case.”

We cannot apply this to Omarchy, as this is not an official sponsorship which is what is addressed in here. But if we were to apply that rule to Omarchy, I think they need to establish very clearly what are appropriate community standards, so that the community can effectively understand where is their line of care. When is a community not benefitial to their goals. Additionally I think FW needs to address Omarchy and DHH. Even if it is to say that they disagree with the case brought forth by the concerned members of the community.

Not addressing this is effectively affirming none of this is FW’s business, and as long as they don’t address it, everyone should understand that Framework’s business cares up to the point that they decide to engage with, and nothing more than that.

As a personal observation, the message that this leaves for potential customers, and potential business partners is a weird one: One that we have seen deployed “at scale” by major corporations. I don’t mean that FW is set to become an empire. I think that their growth will benefit an entire ecosystem of other projects, some of them more careful than others, and that they will keep having confrontations with their community. When these confrontations happen, they will decide whether to engage or not, and as a result, loose and gain customers, and become more or less relevant in the struggles of care we are all involved in negotiating.

I think I have spent enough time trying to engage with the community through posts here, at times slightly obsessively devoting attention to it, but always spending time reading and observing trying to form an opinion about this case, maybe the first time that I engaged with a technology company on a political stance. I don’t discard revisiting this topic later on, but generally my engagement is now much lower, both because of the (not inspiring) answers on several occasions from FW, and from my own ability to keep caring about it. It’s been nice, and I hope to find Framework again in the future, engaging deeply with its community, not dismissing any concern, even if it means separating themselves from potentially strategic business partners. I won’t invest in this company until I see that their commitment to their community’s concerns extends beyond their business goals. Which I recognize is a weird thing to ask to a company with shareholders, but hey, I am in basically asking for an open discussion, not police control over FW decisions, I think it is due time for businesses to involve their stakeholders more openly in their decision-making :slight_smile:

Sorry for the rant, I am quite happy to keep talking over private messages to discuss this. Have a nice day everyone

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I greatly appreciate the transparency here. Providing a clear list of sponsorships provided and having a clear standard of ethics for sponsorship is critical. Still surprised you chose to go forward with Hyprland, but not on the ethics of the matter.

However, I am disappointed this does not address Omarchy/DHH. Giving DHH a dev unit makes me genuinely wonder, what is the process for determine what projects and who get dev units? Why was Omarchy considered a technically relevant project requiring a dev unit? I realize I am likely asking about proprietary company information you are unable to release. I also realize there are likely dozens of questionable characters that got dev units we will never no about because that’s the nature of open source. My question is more, from a pure technical perspective, why was a few month old project that amounts to an Arch install script chosen as a project worthy of receiving a dev unit?

There is still the question of the social media posts of Omarchy, but I will let others hash that out.

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I am pretty confused by this community. I came to framework because it’s open source, linux friendly and blows everyone out of the water on right to repair.

I’m interested in running Omarchy, and people on here accused of being a racist and facist because of it. It’s a crazy thing to say if you knew me.

So now I’m wondering if it’s possible to engage with this community without the political purity tests. Bottom line, is it a fools errand to ask technical questions about Omarchy going forward? Could someone provide a list of software that is going to elicit political attacks?

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