There’s probably a couple that you missed. The easiest way to see them is under the “Activity” tab in nrp’s profile.
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Normally, topics won’t auto-delete after being locked manually or automatically. The only exception, AFAIK, is the entire topic, OP and replies, are moved/merged to another. In this case, this topic.
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Fortunately you can click “search this topic” and use “posted by” to search the posts. Hint: there’s nothing else.
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That’s factually untrue. There are other responses by Nirav. Whether you consider them substantiative or not is a different question but they are there.
It’s a vocal minority, not large amount of people. Correct yourself, please.
The two so called ambassadors could have stepped down for whatever reason at any point. No one is irreplaceable, so I doubt it’ll affect Framework somehow. In fact, I suspect that money are pouring and they can’t send computers fast enough to all people.
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Forget the politics. Rav’s posts and the company’s prolonged silence don’t make sense even from a value-based standpoint.
I don’t think one can claim “we’re in support of all open-source software” and leave it there. Supporting an open-source credit card stealer would be pretty daft, no? We all like having our own stuff.
When interacting with other people, we put limits on what we should and shouldn’t do. Those limits are drawn by our values. One can infer lots about the company’s recent actions by peering through this lens. (If X does Y, it means they probably value Z, etc.)
Perhaps the company’s goal was never to be an extension of the values of the (F)OSS community (kindness, trustworthiness, transparency, etc). They probably just wanted to use the platform it gave them as a marketing ploy.
… It worked, at least speaking personally. 
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Great values! Now be kind and leave the UK politics to the people in UK.
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Framework values and mission can be read from for example here or here as well. Is it not have been so in the past ?
If you mean (F)OSS community as people… I mean, at least to me, this has always been a “big tent” with many controversial figures anyway. And that includes a whole spectrum from far-left to far-right. Even within a single project.
There are however still common goals and values that this ambiguous group of people associating themselves with FOSS share, and which in my opinion Framework will and has been always following as well.
For example, there are definitions set by the Open Source Initiative and FSF on how to define the open source software, where the key point relies on the software and its license, not necessarily the values of its author and users. Then, there is Right to Repair, that Framework also advocates. This is something that can be considered as more political and more related to human values. But still, it focuses mostly on the human rights for accessible repairing, guides, spare parts and also environmental concerns such as anti-consumerism and reducing e-waste. Not so much on other merits.
So, to me - in order to state that there is a group of people, who are being used to gain a marketing ploy (and betray later), means that Framework would first and foremost have to make their devices less repairable and less accessible to open source software. We can make a case that Desktop has soldered RAM, but that is not a very strong argument here. The situation with Framework sponsoring Hyprland or supporting Omarchy is a bit different and can be more described as conflict with the expectations set by the community, but even so, not everybody in the community will condemn these decisions here and there are valid points made by both sides.
I kind of agree and wish on one hand that Framework could describe the relationship with Omarchy in more detail here for the community (although I think, it is clear enough for me and I can accept that), but then again, it will probably just start another flame war and we have plenty enough of these already. Maybe it is better just to make your own decision how to forward, let go on the topic and just move on.
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Thanks for that, indeed there were more posts, and one especially. Specifically Framework supporting far-right racists? - #1609 by nrp which I think is important.
Having read some others impressions, and some other opinions around the Internet on the Hyprland community toxicity, and some more recent positive trends, it does sound like perhaps that community is getting better and Framework did, indeed, do some research and felt that moving in the right direction (even if not there yet, but positive movement is good) is something worth supporting which could help move it even a bit more in the positive direction.
For the Omarchy, while I can understand pre-prod/R&D/marketing samples sent out to folks is under a different budget, that’s perhaps somewhat OK, but the bigger issue is the unanswered “why we chose to highlight/promote” on something run by someone who has some very clear, outspoken views that definitely don’t correspond to a large segment of the community. It’s one thing to work behind the scenes of “hey, I see this issue on software/drivers/whatever on the hardware” or “how do I access/do/whatever with this bit” to make people who choose to use it. That’s just fine, I’d expect that. Or users coming to the forum or emailing support for help. Sure. But again, it’s about the promoting/visibility. That is directly advocating for not just a piece of software, but if run primarily by one person (as this is, and in someways the Linux kernel is with Linus, to a large degree even if not 100%), you then can easily be seen to endorse the politics and opinions of that highly visible leader.
What’s even MORE frustrating and annoying, is that Framework/Nirav has had PLENTY of time to post a more visible, larger blog response. The fact that I had to find the post, rather than them releasing all this and perhaps a bit more comments, as a full blog post is POOR communications and community engagement.
And this sums up, much more, where I’m at now Framework supporting far-right racists? - #1630 by anarcat
Why are they still silent? A press release & blog post with substantially that post 1609 by nrp goes a LONG way towards going, well, they had more nuance on at least part of it. Why we’d still be talking about this STILL 3 weeks after that post, without it being obviously a very important response, is stupid.
Now I think they still need to say something about the DHH & Omarchy pushing, and their rationale and if they did any vetting at all. If they didn’t, OK. Well lesson learned. Mistakes can happen, but own up, learn, and do better in the future.
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I think the constant assertion that DHH is a nazi or fascist is over the line personally. I disagree, and I don’t think that mine is the extreme opinion on the subject at all.
This constant line of attack is used to justify violence against anyone to the right politically. That is the purpose here.
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Who here is trying to justify violence? You keep commenting about those scary violent communists, but I’ve seen no sign of them here. I’m beginning to suspect they’re all in your head.
If you’d like to rave against imaginary people, please do it somewhere else.
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A person who didn’t parrot that DHH was a nazi was DOXXed earlier in this thread.
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Its a straight up goofy response. Keep reporting me, it’s ridiculous! You’re calling me out for misinformation about a post that tells people about a Discourse feature for finding information. LOL
Yeah, it was edited into one of the other posts up top.
That’s what I’m saying. They’ve never addressed Omarchy and it leaves a weird taste.
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I didn’t report you. You’ll notice my comment was also removed. What I said was misinformation was
There quite obviously were other posts. But again, I didn’t report you. And I conceded that the question of how substantial or worthwhile those posts were could easily be debated and has been. The existence of those posts however, cannot be in dispute.
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Looking at the acrimony to affect this forum in recent months, I feel we need to be honest and admit the linux scene can be a dangerous place for a business mindful of its reputation to contribute.
- Linux is rather sectarian compared to other operating systems.
- Much of its development and sponsorship comes from toxic “big tech” that does not support our values.
- Linux is too big for Framework to have much effect on.
My argument is that Framework does not have to direct its philanthropy into linux to support FOSS operating systems. It is not one of these firms whose whole identity is bound specifically to linux, such as Tuxedo. Instead it could use its platform to champion some of the more niche players. These would benefit tangibly from Framework support - whereas a free computer to linux development as a whole is a mere drop in the ocean - and can be selected to share our values. Here are a few suggestions.
Haiku. A very easy to use operating system inspired by BeOS. Out of all three, this is the most accessible as a “daily driver”.
Sculpt. Privacy focussed operating system from Germany. The developer, Genode labs, have a Framework in their testing fleet.
9Front. Based on Plan9, Bell labs successor to Unix. Their community is very lefty, if the homepage is any guide.
I play with a couple of these and it is always as delight to see them develop. Most importantly, I feel comfortable using them because their communities share my values. Instead of having to navigate a minefield to determine what I want to give drive space to on my computer. After all, if Framework cannot manage that vetting, what hope for the rest of us?
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I feel that this is related to the topic here:
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So, what do you call someone who claims that only white people can be “native brits” and wants everyone else violently expelled from London?
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You’re not wrong. Though, to your point 2, it is big tech that is pushing most of the toxicity into the community. Almost always, when you see a project “dev” post about banning or removing a person from existence, that dev is employed by a large company pushing those views (recent examples from Ubuntu and redhat).
Actual open source devs who contribute their own time, I think, tend to be more of a live-and-let-live type.
Then you got a bunch of tourists trying to force their “beliefs” for lack of a better word mudding the waters.
But yes, Linux is a wild place.
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The Linux community is not the problem here. Framework caused its own problems by openly promoting DHH and his barely-a-distro pile of Bash scripts on top of Arch.
Even from a purely technical perspective, it was an ignorant move. The fact that DHH openly says non-whites are not real Brits and supports fascist Tommy Robinson, of course, is a much bigger problem: No company should promote people who say such things, period.
To this day, @nrp has not issued anything even resembling acknowledgment of the actual issue, much less the apology that we deserve. I will continue to boycott Framework until something changes.
Also, the 9front community is explicitly anti-fascist. I suspect they would actively avoid associating with Framework at this point.
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