Framework Tablet lite project (10.5" version of FW tablet)

[Surja_Knap]

I am somehow failing to find a type-C splitter/HUB that would split the fully featured USB C port (at least video+3.x data) to multiple ports (at least one video + data and at least one or two data ports). Do these even exist? All I can find are hubs that will take your type-C and split it to many non-USB C ports or 2.0 ports without video.

Long story:
I would love to add wifi and bluetooth to the tablet. The solution for carrying the tablet around is a tiny wifi USB with type-C to type-A adapter that fits into the top left hole and sticks out about 2cm. But the signal is rather poor.

Solution 1 (also what I want to work on next): Make a keyboard case that would ideally feature: A small USB keyboard (iGet S10C case is going to be the donor), USB hub that would provide at least 2 free type-A 3.0 ports and possibly ethernet or HDMI, Wifi 6 with reasonably good antenna (Comfast 953AX or similar), bluetooth and I am exploring the possibility of it containing an additional battery bank. All should be connected via a single magnetic connector that would be permanently plugged into the bottom right type-C port of the tablet.

That would provide basically a full 2in1 experience with a great battery life, no need to carry a dongle around, very good wifi and some bluetooth.

But then I thought, maybe it would be good to use the free space inside the case and implement the good wifi into the tablet. But there is a problem, because that requires at least 2 USB 2.0 ports (one for wifi, one for BT) inside the tablet and that would mean I have to sacrifice another thunderbolt port to connect a hub that would only serve this purpose.

After giving up one TB4 port just for 1200p 60Hz screen and USB 2.0 data line (touch) I don´t feel like giving up another one just for 2x 2.0 data lines.

So I thought, maybe there is a way to squeeze more out of the already used port, to split it into multiple type-C ports, one would carry 1200p video, power and 2.0 data to the display board and two 2.0 that would provide data and power for wifi and BT cards.

Well, after 2 days worth of aliexpress and other stores search, I found no such thing.

So for now I am sticking with the tablet being as it is - with wifi adapter sticking out and no bluetooth (the case hole being pretty tight protects the thunderbolt from damage) and will try to add features to the case.

But if there is a way to have some 2.0 type A ports inside the case, it would be nice to have the wifi and bluetooth implemented.

Also, I have thought about using the touchpad or webcam interfaces, but there seems to be no way to “extract” USB signal from them as they are propertiary. Or is there?

[MJ1]

@Surja_Knap

Also, I have thought about using the touchpad or webcam interfaces, but there seems to be no way to “extract” USB signal from them as they are propertiary. Or is there?

Nothing that Framework has control over is propertiary.
https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13/blob/main/Electrical/Pinouts.md#webcam-interface
USB is available on the webcam connector and the fingerprint reader. Touchpad looks to use I2C, not usb.

[Surja_Knap]

Oh I see, so I could buy a connector for IPEX 20879-030E and solder USB female to the other side…? I do see a lot of grounds, one USB 2.0 DP, one USB 2.0 DM but there seems to be no 5V that USB needs - what powers the webcam or am I blind? Also I misused the word propertiary, I meant “not standard USB, but made for the webcam and you can´t just go buy an IPEX 20879-030E to USB Female in a shop” not “custom made to not be available” - english is not my first language, I am sorry.

[King_INF3RN0]

@MJ1

@Surja_Knap

Wear of the TB4/USB C connectors on the board - they may not have been meant for daily unplugging as there are the expansion cards to be “worn out” instead.

I think this is unlikely to be an issue. Any USB C port from a major manufacturer of connectors is going to be built to reasonable standards. And USB C was not designed as a limited use internal connector, it was expected to see use & abuse. The parts that should be more likely to fail, the moving spring contacts and spring loaded retention hooks, are on the cable side.

I concur with this. Of course, wear is inevitable, and connectors do eventually fail, so the Framework’s expansion cards do significantly reduce the risk of normal wear on the mainboard’s connectors - but for a project like this, I would say it’s a necessary and acceptable risk to take. After all, it’s still replaceable down the line!

[MJ1]

@Surja_Knap

I do see a lot of grounds, one USB 2.0 DP, one USB 2.0 DM but there seems to be no 5V that USB needs - what powers the webcam or am I blind?

You’re right. Unless I’m blind too I don’t see 5v on the webcam pinout. Looks like it runs on 3.3v. Pin 22: 3V3 (common way of writing 3.3v in electronic designs). Usb devices don’t have to use 5v, it’s just that is the standard on external ports. Some externally attached usb devices don’t even use the 5v for anything internally, instead they regulate it down to 3.3v, because a lot of chips these days run on 3.3v. So when a device is internally attached and has no need for 5v, it saves components and complexity to just serve it 3.3v.

Looks like the Input Cover Interface has 5v on pin 38 (for touchpad) and pin 39 (for fingerprint). Note [2] and [3] says 38 is not always on and 39 is always on. 39 is probably still on when the laptop is sleeping, maybe even on when the laptop is off. You wouldn’t want that for a wifi adapter so pin 38 is the better choice.
Input Cover Interface pinout

But if you wanted to use the webcam’s usb instead, you could tap into 5v elsewhere. The fan interface connector might be a convenient place to piggy-back off of. It’s a JST SH 1.0 mm pitch connector. Those are common enough that you can buy cables and connectors from aliexpress or ebay.

But yeah, it might not be easy for you to interface with the input cover port. Due to needing to source a cable that mates with it.

[nrp]

There is USB 2.0 on the Display, Webcam, and Input Cover (for fingerprint) connectors.

[Surja_Knap]

Important! Lengths of screws in my bucket list are incorrect, they just arrived and they don´t fit, turns out that M3x5mm screw doesn´t have 5mm long thread but is 5mm long overall. I will update them after I measure how long they should be.

[MJ1]

@Surja_Knap Have you seen this?

Input connector shim - for power switch, USB 2.0 and LEDs

Heyo! I’ve developed and now tested this nifty board that lets you attach an external power button to a Framework mobo, as well as exposes a USB 2.0 port and backlight/fingerprint/capslock LED connections. I sell these, and you can also order the PCBs and assemble one yourself, just needs a kapton tape fix before reflow. Hope this can help! [D7BFA156-0786-49CA-AE1B-EEFE79135F24] [1500E395-1594-4D37-B2AD-B7555576A9B7]

A board for sale from a forum user that gives you USB 2.0 from the fingerprint connector. It looks like it comes with a female USB port on a lenght of wire. Though might want to check that.

[Surja_Knap]

@MJ1 Thanks, that´s exactly what I need, furthermore this occupies the fingerprint/keyboard slot so this means I can still get an USB from the webcam one - meaning I could possibly get 2x USB 2.0 within the tablet! Definitely ordering one

[MJ1]

@Surja_Knap

Definitely ordering one

Looks like he has only one left. Might want to grab it quick. Hopefully he’ll make more, but who knows.

@Surja_Knap

I can still get an USB from the webcam one - meaning I could possibly get 2x USB 2.0 within the tablet!

The 2nd port you need is just for a bluetooth adapter, right? I don’t imagine that would demand a lot of bandwidth, so how about a small usb 2.0 hub?

If you have a soldering iron there are some small boards based on the FE11SX4 chip available.
$10 tindie https://www.tindie.com/products/tinkerboy/tinkerboy-4-port-usb-hub-breakout-board/
$3 aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801220206638.html
$4 clearer pics aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803326487370.html
Adafruit uses the same chip for their raspberry pi zero hubs Zero4U - 4 Port USB Hub for Raspberry Pi Zero v1.3 : ID 3298 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
datasheet https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/product-files/2991/FE1.1s+Data+Sheet+(Rev.+1.0).pdf

[Surja_Knap]

Small update - correct screw lengths to hold case together are M2.5x4 mm and M3x6 mm - btw the project will be updated, I just don´t have time due to personal reasons. Has anyone tried to 3D print or somehow modify the project files? Any feedback is most welcome.

[2disbetter]

I would very much like to make this. Would you say we are at a point now when printing for the masses is viable?

[Surja_Knap]

Well the situation is that it works, it is printable and daily driveable, will certainly be upgraded in the future, but no big upgrades planned in near future. I did make some updates of the design though, because I noticed that the display is now pressing a little against some parts of the reinforced chassis (which wasn´t an issue pre-reinforcement) and some other details, so please make sure to wait for me to upload the updated files before you print, you will have a better experience using it. Also please note the updated screw lengths.

[Surja_Knap]

Oh, I never uploaded the files, sorry! There you go!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dUqw_XWMt_TX7aPqv7IFRYEdS0o3vmo-?usp=share_link

[Surja_Knap]

Unfortunate update - after about a year of use, this design has proven to be a failure. I was trying to diagnose an issue where BD Prochot error would come up and CPU performance would get limited to 400 MHz. I always thought I had faulty board, because I received it for free with some minor issues + I did some stuff that might have damaged it.

But now I have a new board that I bought second hand and the BD prochot is still present.

I am almost certain that the battery causes it - unplugging it immediately resolved the issue. So the theory is that the battery overheats because of its placement. The only other chance is some driver conflict in Windows, which I will test.

Anyway, if anyone is considering printing it, I have to discourage you for now, as this issue can be a potential safety hazard.

I am working (funny enough unrelated to this issue) on another design that would feature a smaller powerbank inside the case and battery would be external, also potentially a different display.

I am sorry that I received the board for free and yet failed to deliver a good result after such a long time, I have some personal issues that prohibit me from working on it as much as I’d love to, but hopefully they should be resolved next month after long 2 years of struggle.

After that, I am planning to make big changes to the project:

1. I finally have the board for palmrest connector, so the tablet will feature built in USB type A, wifi and bluetooth.
2. It would be powered by battery bank that would be inside the case, it would give up some capacity (44wh seems to fit) but also should save some space and resolve the overheating issue.
3. I would love to experiment with water cooling, which would be beneficial especially for AMD boards that can have 54W TDP.
4. A different display. I may ditch touchscreen though for I really want to use eDP display. Or use a digitizer. I did research and nobody so far managed to connect a touchscreen via eDP. External display such as this one needs cables that run inside the tablet and basically take up most of the space. I may keep this display and increase the tablet size though.

I don’t know at this rate if I finish it in reasonable time, I promised a lot in this thread and didn’t deliver much, but I did buy about 60% of the stuff I will need for the project update, so it’s not like I am not planning to do it.

[Surja_Knap]

So, it´s not battery overheating. I am running the board now with battery in a standard configuration, outside of the tablet and I am still getting BD Prochot and 0.39 GHz but the battery is literally room temperature. Either there´s something wrong with it or the issue is somewhere else.

So I guess the design isn´t dangerous after all, eventhough yesterday I was very sure that the battery was overheating. Now I am puzzled.

[Adrian_Joachim]

@Surja_Knap

So, it´s not battery overheating. I am running the board now with battery in a standard configuration, outside of the tablet and I am still getting BD Prochot and 0.39 GHz but the battery is literally room temperature. Either there´s something wrong with it or the issue is somewhere else.

Is it possible it’s the vrms overheating?

[Surja_Knap]

I don’t know, on 2 separate boards? And why would the problem be immediately fixed after battery unplug?

[Adrian_Joachim]

@Surja_Knap

I don’t know, on 2 separate boards?

It would likely be a function of the airflow design so it happening on 2 different boards would be somewhat expected.

@Surja_Knap

And why would the problem be immediately fixed after battery unplug?

Pretty sure you get different power profiles with and without battery so the one without battery may just be gentler on the power delivery.

[Surja_Knap]

Yeah but now the airflow is good, everything is like an open testbench in a pretty cold room, also when the CPU is running at 400 MHz for 10 minutes, VRM should have cooled down long ago and immediately after I unplug the battery, that very second it jumps to 3 GHz range again.