Unless my quick research is wrong and that thing is capable of falling back to usb+dp mode, having displays working on the dock means thunderbolt itself works.
I do have the USB4 Root/Host Routers listed also, in addition to the Thunderbolt 3™ Routers:
But I think I’m giving up on the TB16. I had to reset the TB16 (unplug, hold power button on dock for 30 seconds, then replug power to the dock and the cable to the laptop) and restart and unplug/replug the cable 4-5 times this morning to get my external monitors to show up.
Someone noted that their Lenovo 40B0 Thunderbolt 4 dock was working well and I found one on ebay that should arrive tomorrow or Monday.
Thanks for everyone’s help and suggestions! Glad to have joined the community…
Dang- I had an eBay best offer which I thought had been counter-offered/declined for a Dell WD22TB4 outstanding when I purchased the Lenovo 40B0, and somehow my offer got accepted, so now I also have a Dell WD22TB4 on its way as well. (I did have two TB16 docks for two work locations, so not the end of the world to have two docks if they both work, I guess.)
At least I’ll be able to report back if any issues to help others looking for compatible docks.
Just to close the loop, both the Lenovo 40B0 and the Dell WD22TB4 docks seem to be working well for me with a 4k displayport monitor and a 1080p HDMI monitor, and a few USB devices (external keyboard, USB microphone, logitech universal receiver), and both provided 60w of USB-PD. The Dell has a little LED on the plug which stays lit when the laptop is on.
After using the Dell for a week, just today I started having 2-3 episodes where the 1080p screen went black and then came back after about 1-2 seconds which I haven’t done any troubleshooting on yet. I used the Lenovo for about 2 days, and might actually like that one better because it appears to be fanless and has a removable thunderbolt cable to the host, unlike the Dell dock, but still trying to decide which dock will stay on my primary workspace, and which will go to a different setup.
Hey guys, I know this thread is a little old, but did you have to do anything special to get the USB4 Root Router to show up? I have a 7840u, have installed the framework drivers and the AMD drivers and those don’t show up for me.
I’m having issues getting an eGPU to fully function, so was wondering if there are some drivers that I am missing. Are those only displayed when the dock is plugged i? or are they like the USB Root Hubs that are just always there?
Thanks!
Just unplugged my dock and went to device manager and the USB4 Root Router and USB4™ Host Router (Microsoft) entries were still visible (I did not have “show hidden devices” selected in the view menu), but I think the “USB4 Router” showed up after I plugged my dock back in.
Which eGPU are you using? I have a Razer Core X with a NVidia RTX-3090 that I haven’t tried to get working yet (hoping to play with some local LLMs when I get some time one of these days). I’m a little worried that installing the nvidia drivers will introduce some more instability in Windows though given the AMD discrete graphics (occasionally getting a complete lockup on the Windows 11 lock screen after waking up the screen) and still trying to decide whether I want to try and install/access it via WSL or natively, or just dual-boot linux and use it there when needed.
Hmmm; I don’t have that as an option. Did you install anything special for Thunderbolt?
I think when I was troubleshooting my Dell TB16, I downloaded and installed a “Thunderbolt Control Center” app from Intel.
If I recall correctly, I was having trouble finding how/where to authorize the Thunderbolt dock in Windows 11, but I can’t remember if it worked and was actually helpful, given that the TB16 wouldn’t provide USB-PD power via the thunderbolt cable, even though I was getting two display outputs and USB ports working.
And you installed the same Thunderbolt Control center on the framework as your dell?
I’ve installed that on the framework but I don’t get any devices to show up. Even as I’m typing this using the eGPU, it doesn’t show up as a thunderbolt device. It does on my intel laptops, but on the framework nothing.
eGPU is an Aorus gaming box btw; I’ve gotten the eGPU part working but now the USB ports attached to the eGPU aren’t being detected. More of an annoyance than anything else, but would be really nice to get the whole package up and running as everything else about the laptop I’m really digging.
A little OT: Could any FW AMD owner please upload a screenshot of the Windows 11 USB4 Panel?
I have been asked to prove that AMD is limited to a single DP connection per USB4 port, but cannot find any existing screenshot showing this.
For reference, this is the panel I am talking about on an Intel/TB4 machine, where it shows that as required by TB4 2 DP connections are available and I believe AMD to only offer a single connection.
Here you go. Strange that it also shows 2 DP adaptors per Host Router as I also understand there is only one DP stream per port. Perhaps it is showing that there are 2 channels that can be tunnelled?
Thank you.
Mhh, this is strange, I really would have expected this to show only one.
Now I am unsure about my conclusion.
This would require further testing with an actual TB dock, if it can actually supply 2 connections or how it errors out when it refuses to make the 2nd connection.
I could only test this myself with a borrowed HP EliteBook with 6000 AMD CPU. But the Windows 11 version back then was too old to have this USB4 panel, so I only relied upon on the 2nd DP connection not working, while the rest worked.
Sadly, as I understand it, AMD is using 1 port per router unlike Intel. So we have no other way of confirming. We cannot simply attach a monitor via DP/alt mode directly and watch it mark one DP in Adapter as unavailable but still have one left for the 2nd port. We simply need to see it establish 2 DP tunnels to confirm the notebook I tested this on was somehow bugged or AMD 7000 got an upgrade in USB4 functionality without anybody mentioning it…
Ps. If you are interested in helping investigate this further and have some form of TB or USB4 dock/hub we can also move this over to the TB/USB4 background thread…
Just to point out I’m having the same issue on the Framework 16 with this same dock. If it charges, then no connected devices work. If connected devices work, it does not charge.
Additionally, seems like the displayport over usb-c port at the back doesn’t work either.
All working fine on my old laptop (XPS 9560).
I continued researching a DELL TB16, with partial success.
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Laptop 16 AMD on a TB16 via the Framework USB-C module: Laptop is charging, the LED on the TB16 connector remains off. The HDMI port on the TB16 provides no signal, no audio, no network, no Thunderbolt. There is no sign of the “Thunderbolt 3™-router” or any other innards of the TB16 in the Windows 11 device manager.
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Laptop 16 AMD connected to a TB16 directly in the slot (without USB-C module): Laptop is NOT charged, the LED on the TB16 connector remains off. The HDMI port of the TB16 provides a signal (WQHD 60 Hz), all ports of the TB16 work, network at full speed. In the Windows 11 device manager there is the “Thunderbolt 3™ router” and all TB16 devices are visible (the drivers must be installed, can be found at DELL website).
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I was unable to test the Thunderbolt port on the TB16.
So I solve this like this: Connect TB16 directly in slot 1 on the left side and everything works (except charging).
Connect the framework charger to the USB-C module in slot 2.
Now i have to connect twice as many cables 
but the equipment on the TB16 can stay as it is.
Unfortunately I have to buy another charger, but I’ll do that when the SD card module is available again.
Assumption: DELL creatively extended the then standard for PD to its own products (proprietary). Devices from other manufacturers are charged with a maximum of 60 watts, DELL laptops with more power. I don’t know exactly what combinations of voltage and amps these are. These combinations are probably outside the adopted PD (PowerDelivery) standard. So the framework laptop will not load if connected directly to the slot.
Why the behavior of the USB-C module has an influence on these relationships can certainly be clarified.
In the BIOS of the DELL XPS 15 (9560) you can control whether the TB16 is permanently recognized and available when booting up. Of course, this authorization does not exist in the BIOS of the Laptop 16… But perhaps Framework will still take care of this niche, or perhaps it is not allowed to do so for licensing reasons.
Thunderbolt Control Center is NOT compatible with Windows 11. Intel will NOT fix that…
It is compatible with Windows 11. It is not compatible with the Intel TB4 controllers in the proper USB4 mode (right now the ones in the CPU) or AMD’s or ASMedia’s USB4 controllers.
But there is no reason to want that. TB Control Center works with TB4 controllers that run Firmware Connection Managers. I.e. that handle all the decisions and connection management autonomously in their firmware. TB Control Center only shows very limited details on the decisions the controller already made.
Windows 11 requires using Windows’s USB4 drivers to manage everything for the modern controllers. Giving Windows way more control, allowing Windows to be updated with new USB4 functionality and support more advanced features and diagnostics. In almost all cases you want the modern Software Connection Manager.
And since Windows 11 now even supports external controllers with its USB4 drivers (which it only learned recently) any new USB4 controllers will be designed for those only. The TB4 Maple Ridge controller used in desktops just came out, before Windows had support and thus stuck with the legacy way, even under Windows 11. Just like Tiger Lake notebooks that shipped with Windows 10.
The Thunderbolt Control Center was designed for Windows® 10 and it is not compatible with Windows 11. There are currently no plans to support the application under Windows 11.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000097400/intel-nuc.html
And this refers specifically to NUCs, that use the mobile CPUs where that may even be true if they are all in USB4 mode.
But every desktop system, with a desktop CPU (or even AMD CPU) uses the Maple Ridge TB4 controller that still uses the TB Control Center & the old driver.
Just look at any mainboard with Intel TB4/USB4 controller. Like
Gaming-Mainboard ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ASUS where the TB Control Center is specifically offered for Windows 11.
Because, the Windows 11 USB4 drivers did not and do not support this TB4 controller.
Also I have access to a 11th gen notebook that, like I described, shipped with Windows 10 and is forced to keep using the TB Control Center and its drivers under Windows 11 (it seems that manufacturers had a choice in firmware whether to expose Tiger Lake USB4 ports as the old TB controllers or as modern USB4 device like Framework did).
Maybe as the best example: https://www.dell.com/support/home/de-de/product-support/product/xps-17-9730-laptop/drivers. Launched with Windows 11, only supports Windows 11, but in some variants uses Maple Ridge TB4 controllers instead of the CPU-integrated TB4 controllers so that they can implement muxable outputs from the dGPU through TB4. And hence still uses the TB Control Center and drivers.
OK
Displayport is working at TB16
New findings on DELL TB16 on the AMD 7040 Laptop 16:
The plug of my TB16 is worn out, it holds both in the USB-C module and directly plugged in (without module) only mechanically unstable. I have now inserted an angled plug that sits firmly in the USB-C module (the plug of the TB16 also sits more firmly in the angled plug). This ensures that the TB16 is reliably recognized after every restart and after waking up from hibernate. When waking up from standby, contact with the TB16 is lost. The TB16 must then be unplugged and reconnected, or alternatively the power supply to the TB16 must be briefly interrupted…
The laptop must be charged with a separate power supply unit.
All functions of the TB16 are available, except for charging and waking up from standby. I would like to edit the previous post accordingly, i.e. cross out what is wrong and add what is new. Is this possible here?