Help clear my conscience

[Richard_Lees]

Personally, I =did= decide to go with the i7-1165 because on paper it seemed a bit more future-proof … but the actual performance increase is really incremental so I’m not sure would really make a difference when you’re comparing against generations. If things go well Framework will hopefully offer motherboard upgrades that fit this chassis … obvious risk with that hope, but probability is much much higher than with other manufacturers.

Oh yeah, I forgot to point out the biggest Framework draw – orange bezels!! Mine looks awesome!! Unexpected cool factor is the orange stripe all the way around when it is closed. Super cool.

[Chris_Eden]

@Richard_Lees

you’re buying into a company that is passionate about their products

@mjnz - This is what put me over the top; I already have a quite capable Spectre x360 i7 that has been relegated to desktop use, as it’s a bit cumbersome for my taste. I could probably sell my HP now, but want to see how things pan out with Framework.

I’ve put my Framework through the wringer, installing at least a dozen distros at different times testing it out, and settling on WIndows + 2x Linus and Chrome OS. It’s been a very satisfying process.

My hope is that with commitment from customers Framework will help us future-proof our investments and do even more exciting things.

[mjnz]

@Richard_Lees Richard_Less Orange bezels? Someone should have brought that up to begin with. I’m in for sure! Haha. Love orange trim on anything.

@Chris_Eden ooooo you unknowingly just convinced me to dual boot Chrome OS and Windows, been on the back of my mind for a long time. When I simply want to surf for hours or watch YouTube at the airport, Chrome OS is the way to go for me! I`m now stoked about learning and experimenting with dual boot. Yes I could do it on any drive, but for some reason the Framework seems like it’s “made” for that experimentation. Others I just didn’t want to “mess with”.

[Chris_Eden]

@mjnz - When I considered this investment, it was also a (somewhat pricey) way for me to experiment. I ditched Apple completely a while back, and it’s not an easy feat to match the user experience. So experimentation was the way to go for me. The great thing is it’s been like a blank slate for me to do whatever; I’ve been nesting for a while trying to find the right fit. This is happily my daily driver around the house, so I know it worked.

I should note that my “Chrome OS” is actually FydeOS, inspired (as are many of my Framework choices) by these forums. Although it allows me to almost seamlessly use Linux and Android apps, I’ve opted for standalone Chrome extensions for the web versions of my favourite apps.

[Jason_Hottelet]

@mjnz

In general, is the i5 going to be “outdated” in 3 years, or will it continue to serve it’s “middle ground” purpose even then? Should I upgrade to the i7 for only the intent of “future proofing” or, if I don’t need it now (likely don’t really), I won’t need it then?

I’ve been rocking the i5 in my Macbook Pro from 2015 since about 2016 and I rarely felt the need for a more powerful CPU (of course this is highly subjective).I also think that considering the not soo great performance plus the i7 models offer, they would be just as outdated as the i5 if some class of super-CPUs ridicules them a few years down the road. For that reason (and because of the pricing) i went with the i5 here as well, especially since i won’t feel that bad about ditching it for e.g. an ARM or RISC-V motherboard once those hopefully become available.

tldr: go with the i5 if you don’t need an i7 now.

[Andrew_Holden]

I don’t think i7 is much more future proof than i5. Clock speeds have been pretty stagnant for the last 20 years.
The main worry about future proofing would be a new technology, either invented or mandated. That would probably hit both at the same time. The best example I can think of is Windows 11’s new requirement for TPM and Secure Boot, which relegated whole generations of computers to the landfill in one stroke of the pen.

[andyk2]

@Andrew_Holden

The best example I can think of is Windows 11’s new requirement for TPM and Secure Boot, which relegated whole generations of computers to the landfill in one stroke of the pen.

In fairness a TPM has been a requirement of Windows prebuilts for years now, and has been available for custom builds - in fact it’s on many motherboards, just switched off!

Clock speeds aren’t the be all and end all - there are other generational improvements to processors to consider.

[Kanshou]

As someone who regularly opens devices and replaces components, and someone who has seen the nasty anti-repair tactics of almost every manufacturer nowadays… I feel the framework is worth it. I feel even if someone doesn’t buy the framework wanting to upgrade or repair it in the future, being able to purchase one to show interest in the now ancient concept of owning your devices is a good reason to own the laptop to me. Voting with your wallet, as they say

[Terry_Holderbaum]

I didn’t buy my Framework (i7-1165 which really seems to be the sweet spot CPU, 32GB 500GB Gen 4 SSD.) just for the promise of repairability alone. It was for the freedom to chose my parts. I picked what memory, drive, and wifi card to put in. And I saved $300 by putting it all together myself. My total package was $1400 (I already had a windows 11 license, no need to buy one.)

To give you an idea, I chose to put in 32GB of RAM over a 1TB SSD because I could get a faster smaller SSD for less money. See? A choice.

I have owned dozens of laptops and all of them, with the exception of my Macbook Air M1 have all been things where in 12-18 months, I need more and then have to replace them. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but for my use case, faster means better productivity. My goal with the framework is to have a computer than can scale with me.

So for your case, I would point out that that Lenovo in that configuration for $700 is a deal. However there are three more things to think about as well.

the first is that The Ryzen 7 does not support PCI-E Gen4, and I also believe that depending on the model version, the top end of memory is as low as 32GB of ram? The 1135 you have is capable of 64GB and PCI-E Gen4. There is a tremendous speed difference. At my work, we all got $1800 to spend on laptops and my coworkers all got 2020 gen Dell XPS15s with the discreet graphics. But because Dell did not give them a gen 4 option, my drive is literally twice as fast.

Second, I made a specific choice to sacrifice dedicated graphics for the lighter weight and better thermals. As was said everywhere else, the thing about choices is that it is nice to have them.

And then the third point. If Frameworks works out, next year they should release alder lake boards and possibly Ryzen boards. If the promise is true, and I hope it is, the dream should be that you can upgrade to that mainboard, and then take your old one and 3d print a case for it or buy one on the market place to use as a small NUC. The mainboard is self contained and will boot outside of the laptop. Try that with your Lenovo…

To me, the first and second were overwhelming points in favor of Framework, and that does NOT get to repairability, ease of upgrade paths, ability to freely pick and choose my wifi, and reconfigure my ports as needed.

The third one is a promise and hoped for, but it should not be a reason for buying now. If I were you, I would just get another 8GB stick, and throw it in your framework. Because thunderbolt 4, PCI-E 4.0, Port reconfiguration, ease of upgrade and repair, and the better screen are worth the trade off of the ryzen 7’s better performance.

[mjnz]

Yep thanks much for everyone’s input. I am now ready to give it a full chance and can’t wait to get it! I even ordered a ViaScreen matte protector already, so until proven otherwise I’m committed.

[AbqNP]

Just be careful with that screen protector @mjnz

Warning when applying ViaScreens screen protector!

Edit by @nrp: I’ve edited the title from “Do not buy a ViaScreens screen protector!” to “Warning when applying ViaScreens screen protector!”. We strongly recommend not using the sticker-based “Pre-Application Dust Remover” that comes with the screen protector kit (regardless of which brand the screen protector is). Instead, clean the screen carefully using the microfiber cloth and wet wipe that come in the kit, and apply the screen protector in an environment that doesn’t have a lot of dust fl…

[mvw]

@AbqNP

Just be careful with that screen protector

I was moments away from posting this exact thing and link. I have it, and it’s great. Just don’t use the dust removal sticker!

[Shawn_Lewis]

Nah you should have kept the Lenovo. Framework laptops are only for persons who are serious about the future of computing.

[mjnz]

@Shawn_Lewis oh dang I’m not that serious. Now thinking back to the Lenovo! lol (jk)

[Terry_Holderbaum]

@mjnz,

To be fair, the back and forth you are going through is exactly what a lot of us go through. So good on you for asking the right questions no matter which way you decided.

[mjnz]

@AbqNP and @mvw I saw that on the ViaScreen site, but thanks for the heads up!

[mjnz]

@Terry_Holderbaum right now I`m coming from a 5 or 6 yr old Dell pentium with only 4gb ram laptop, and a Surface Go 2 for travel, so yeah any Framework is going to be well over my needs. I was just getting greedy with the Ryzen 7 lol but also that it was cheaper, upfront anyway

[mjnz]

well for sure now my conscience is clear, so Framework folks go ahead and ship that out tomorrow please

[tim300]

At 8-16 GB of RAM and 250-500 GB of storage, there’s a lot of competition, and many are priced lower than Framework. At 32-64 GB of RAM and 1-2 TB of storage, however, Framework appears to be in its own league. So for my machine, going with Framework was an easy decision. But then I ended up buying the $999 pre-built option for my wife too, even with the price premium, because I wanted to continue supporting Framework, and because my wife is sick of getting a new machine every three years when the first component fails.

[Patrick_Corey]

As I have been testing the laptop extensively (since I received on the 20th of Dev), I am agreeing with @tim300 regarding the unit price as I maxed out the hardware via Batch 6. A number of the laptops having 64 GB (of RAM) are priced over $3000 to $5000 would force the model size to be 15" or 17" to have similar processor. Many 13" models have the i5 processors.

For me the factors of the laptop size, processor, and RAM as well as support for Linux made the model perfect.