That 16 is direct to CPU lanes. There’s also PCI-E lanes that go to the chipset and on to other devices there. Kaby Lake (7th gen) had 16 direct lanes and 24 lanes to the PCH, so that’s more than enough for most things. And that was long before NVME was the norm.
CPU’s these days look to have at least 20 lanes direct. So GPU and 1 NVME, then everything else goes through the chipset.
The 1270p is capable of 20 lanes at 4.0
Not everything needs direct CPU access.
Ordered by importance for me:
Too small at 13,5", at least 14"-15" would be better
Still no AMD Ryzen (or even better: an ARM option)
Reports about battery not lasting long
No way to test the machine hands on before buying(?)
Some questions regarding long term quality (hinge, trackpad)
No Coreboot or similar open Bios
In conclusion, there currently appears to be not much of a tangible benefit over buying some other laptop with configurable RAM, except for better repairability. I don’t understand how this laptop is “more Linux” than others, when there are reports about less battery life with Linux and there is not even an open Bios or any other way to enhance your privacy (e.g. turning of ME).
That being sad, I am still excited about this project and will be watching it’s progress. I really hope you succeed!
Primarily screen size. I would buy a 15" Framework now if you had one to sell. I have the money. I would think about a 17", though the weight gives me pause.
My 2017 Macbook Pro is on its last legs. I would be happy to move to a Linux laptop with an upgrade path. I would love to keep the same laptop for twenty years and swap out parts as they wear out, especially keyboards. I love the modularity.
But I do want a new laptop this year. Usually I upgrade every five years or so? So if it’s not 2022, maybe it’ll be 2027?
Money. I have… a little less than $1000 right now. And I have a bunch of i/PowerBooks that are still functional (the G4 1.67/DDR2 15" even keeps a 3 hour charge!) that I don’t really want to get rid of, and still do most of the things I want them to do. Like, I just logged into my Fiverr account and am able to manage it just fine from TenFourFox – and that’s with Mac OS X for the time being until I get either MorphOS or a lightweight Linux installed on it.
I just can’t quite justify it, but I also know it would make my life a lot easier.
I’m also waiting on the T2080 laptop going on over in Italy, but while that’s just as or more repairable due to the use of MXM video cards, it does have a few things I hate, mainly the 16:9 panel at 60Hz. I plan on moving entirely to OpenPOWER by 2030 and not having a single amd64 computer left in my life, and hopefully that list of computers I do keep includes the Framework with a Microwatt-based board. I really don’t want to give Intel a single penny, but I’d have to buy both their CPU and their wi-fi module.
While we’re talking about the screen size, this is absolutely not a bar to me buying it, but I’d love a 15.2" panel, identical to my PBG4 but at either 2560x1708 or 2880x1920. It’s a pretty perfect size for a laptop in my opinion. What is a little more of a blocker regarding the screen is the 60Hz refresh rate, I just hate 60Hz passionately and hate using it whenever I’m forced to – it’s why I keep old monitors around to use on new computers, formerly a 2002 Gateway SXGA panel that sucked but got 75Hz and now a bunch of CRTs, that have the bonus advantages of nicer motion and native 10-bit color. I’d take a resolution downgrade if it meant a 90Hz panel – 1440x960 at 15.2" is already pretty crisp, so it or 1920x1280 at 13.5" should be good enough for essentially anyone.
Ah well, I’ll keep myself sated with this cool wallpaper.
And the 3:2 screen, that’s my big deal with the FW. I just can’t go back to 16:9.
I’m concerned about the hinges and the screen teeter / wobble–especially with the reflective display and no matte option. I have seen a few long term reviews of the 1st gen product on youtube and every single one mentions it as a major annoyance.
And even with the new stronger hinges and sturdier lid the issue may not be resolved, with the founder saying that this would not prevent the resonance that causes screen teetering.
Also, whenever this is mentioned here or on reddit, mods or the founder usually go into a marketing / management speak mode (/damage control) way of talking that makes me even more concerned that this is a major design flaw and that it is too expensive at this stage to change.
It’s strange because usually I love the communication from the company: being so straight forward and no nonsense. Breath of fresh air usually.
You are correct.
The hinges are not good and the CNC lid won’t change that. The higher force hinges as they are the same design just stiffer may not either especially with the wide tolerances (inherent from design IMO).
I believe you are correct that they have been less open and transparent with some issues/taking the damage control route which is understandable to some extent but doesn’t inspire confidence as you say.
I’m personally starting to losing faith in this company with each interaction. From the ongoing hardware issues I’m personally having (documented on the LTT thread) to communication issues with support as well as other staff interactions. That Framework exist is already a good thing for the direction of the industry though.
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about with your issues, Trackpad issue is reported a bit and support fixed it, the cooling pad is an issue that is more than likely specific to the framework due to current limiting ICs on the board, the power drain is partially false due to the programs to measure the current is wildly inaccurate as they cannot measure current isolated from the whole device. Bent mainboard is the couriers’ issue not FW, peak boost is theoretical, not practical boost, Burnt MOSFETs seem to be a component issue which is very hard to fix, ESD bag being open is customs or just making sure that the board functions. The packaging issue is not specific to framework as they use a fulfillment partner. Copper strands are bad but not easily preventable without spending time inspecting. Melted plastic and stripped screws are bad, but nothing severe, Sound and microphone are probably drivers, and the fan not turning off is somewhat normal due to variable heatsink joint quality, I have that on my test framework but not my personal one, peak boost goes back to heatsink quality. As for support, they are great if it is something important I will get the Head of Customer support. I might be slightly biased to Framework as I did receive one framework free of charge for expansion card work. Framework has been incredibly open and transparent.
I am going to echo @Josh_Cook, either I have been lucky with my Batch 2, 11th Gen purchase or these issues listed are for a select few. I have 0 issues STILL with my Framework. I use it as a daily drive and have even started using the onboard speakers since my newer monitor has great HDR but horrible sound. Still using original lid and hinges with no play or issue. Only used the camera and mic for a couple of web calls and got compliments both times on my picture and sound quality. Still no power drain on 3.09 bios, I can throw it in standby and put it in my bag for hours and turn it back on with the same amount of power it had when it went into standby (Windows 11). It also lasts 8-10 hours in my work day and I don’t have to charge it until I get home (granted I don’t use it exclusively when working). When gaming hard in Cyberpunk or Dying Light 2 the CPU does stay in the 80s temp range with fan at full speed but the rest of the time it an average of 45 with no fan noise with whatever I am doing. Track pad has never been an issue but I will admit that I use a BT mouse for travel and it’s docked with a gaming mouse when at home so it’s rare that I use the trackpad. So basically, a laptop that always just works for me that’s nice and small with a nice bright screen (which it wouldn’t be if it was matte) and I don’t have to think about it or worry about it and it can also be upgraded or easily repaired by me. Money would be the only excuse I could probably see as valid!
Listen I’m happy for those of you who have had no issues, I truly wish I was in the same boat.
I also have likely had far more contact dealing with support regarding problems than the vast majority so perhaps my experience is different but it is non the less my experience.
I wont go into detail about support issues as it feels redundant (I mention the issues with support in the linked post) and to detail the issues feel unwarranted and potentially unfair.
@Josh_Cook to summarise what you may have missed from that thread or are not aware of:
Touchpad issue was improved but not solved by the replacement, I found a fix myself with tape.
My replacement input cover has a different issue where the cursor won’t always move when touchpad is physically clicked.
All non type C expansions drain power, this is well established on the forums, I’m sure you can test this for yourself to confirm for yourself.
I acknowledge the MOSFET issue as probably bad luck though it is still another problem I had. I recall they did not find a root cause when several other users reported the same issue earlier this year.
Peak boost is advertised as 60W and given an adequate cooling system would be achievable. This is demonstrated by practical test by users lapping contact surface and using high end TIM. If you are correct and it isn’t practically achievable then they should not be saying 60W is achievable in forum posts and on the products sales page.
The bent board is joint responsibility IMO, packaging has inadequate protection and there is no warning on the package of being a delicate item for the couriers to be aware of. I will concede the majority of the responsibility lies with the courier.
Regarding you points on the open ESD bag. I grant you these are possible reasons though support ignored that part of my email totally. Your response here was more engaging on that issue than theirs…
Copper strands is potentially a QC issue though with the pack opened and the other unusual damage it is hard to say for sure how or when this occurred or why.
Sound issue is solved when swapping my burnt MOSFET board back in, nothing else change but hardware (main board). Swapped multiple times always the same.
The fan never turns off because the sound issue is causing constant CPU load on one core, see the linked thread in point 5 under July.
What I’m saying is my experiences are making me loose faith. If you have some empathy and imagine how you would feel after a continuing series of issues you might feel disillusioned too.
All the best.
So you’ve read about it.
He/She’s reporting / stating the experience. “support” fixed it on a per unit basis. Not sure if it’s another “quality escape”, one that they can improve on, or already did. At the very least don’t discount his / her experience. That’s the timeline and events of his/hers.
Don’t be like this cop:
At the very least, have the capacity to realise that experience is a spectrum of variations. Maybe I should elaborate on this point: Experience variation, specifically negative experience variations is what you want to remove from a product. You want to reach a point of unified experience (in a cost effective manner) for all customers. Denying the negative experience from even ever existed doesn’t allow you to reach product experience maturity. It’s ALSO what iterative product generations is supposed to do…provide baseline, provide feedback, review, improve…retry.,
Additionally, don’t confuse “Supporting Framework” with “turning a blind eye”.
For example:
Speculative and bias. Fact is that it arrived with broken seal (with no known / communicated reason to the customer).
All this time I thought I was the only one thinking that.
Yeah, I feel the communication now are not as straight forward / to the point as it once was. But I guess it comes with the territory…perception manipulation via controlled messaging…lol…corporate communication.
I’m enthusiastic about the concept, but too much of a skeptic to base a buying decision on buzz words and “fans”. I need to drive a Tesla and let a Tesla drive me before I pull the trigger. Please sell one to my next-door neighbor so I can go over to their house and play with it before I buy.
I guess that it is good news…they are scaling up. You can t talk directely to the boss of a company with more than 20 employees… You can with a small company of ~10.
Moreover scaling, means finding solutions at scale…like doing an update to to not burn MOFSET but reduce the charging speed… A company needs to scale up to a certain size to make money, so good news we hear less of the boss.
I think also its better not to have to contact the support. The product should just work. Support shouldn t be an important cost of an industrial product like framework laptop…in the end.
Maybe what was very misseleading from framework, is not mentionning they are delivering a BETA version for enthousiaste (fro exampel the guys at pine64 pinephone stats beta). I am certain they have tested it intensively before releasing it. Maybe they thought this meant there would have been very little bugs.
For myself, I knew first version would have been like any first version in hardware or software…buggy. I am ordering V2, hopfully with very little bugs…will see. Bottom line I realise that we have very high expectation on those machines, that we use for 6-10 hours a day !
Edit : I guess also , they have bursts of work…like releasing a V2 with intel 12th gen board…and fixing the many bugs… This V2 is an important milestone, it should be the real thing 
Yes. But also, clarity and transparency of messaging doesn’t only need to come from the boss. i.e. The corporate culture should maintain that in its PR / marketing dept.
The relationship is with Framework, the company…less so with an individual.
I love love love the idea of the Framework laptop. I hate e-waste ands I love repairable electronics. But I need a laptop with a GPU for some of the professional work I do (video editing, photo editing). I’ve been lurking around and following Framework’s progress, but can’t really invest into the Framework ecosystem without a GPU option.
There’s a pretty active group of external GPU enthusiasts here who have documented successes – if you aren’t doing workstation work on the road you might want to see if this is an option that could push you over the edge.
I have one but want to order some more parts for it. What stops me is the criminally expensive postage costs for a couple of cards. 
Holding me back is the small screen size (I’d prefer 17" or at least 16") and no AMD CPU/GPU options.
First, they provide a LOT more value per monetary unit, are more efficient, and I just like AMD more as a company (for example, they open source their GPU drivers).
We definitely understand and are working on ways to cut down on cost for this. We’re currently eating most of this cost to ensure people don’t pay too much (even though we know it’s currently a lot).
We hope to have a better update for this soon!
