Hello,
I have been thinking of a Magsafe3 (or other) expansion card so that my MacbookPro charger could charge my Framework laptop.
Im going through the designing process and doing a little survey if there are other interested before making tooling for a proper female connector.
I have seen @Sean_N project have had a lot of interest…
So why not a Magsafe3.
Of course it will be OpenSource
Please let me know!
I remember reading that the technology is patented, which would prevent Framework from selling anything “too similar”. If you start distributing, you could face legal action too.
If you don’t like this: write to your representative, vote, run for elected office, overthrow the ruling class, etc.
Even if the tech is patented, could I still make my own and share the process without getting sued?
It would be pretty easy to make a magsafe 3 receptacle, but I don’t know what else you need with it. The two outer pins are ground, the next two inward are +V, but that middle one does some talking, I think.
You could also buy a used magsafe 3 port on eBay for $20-$30 and it might work perfectly. I’ve been throwing these ideas around in my mind for a while.
That can’t be real. In that same logic you could get sued for reselling your apple product. Wouldn’t people that sell stuff like shadow boxes of electronics or resellers for components on eBay get sued for distributing? I hope that’s not the case.
Regardless, I think a magnetic expansion card would be sweet. I already have one I 3d printed, but if framework ever made one that doesn’t look nearly as janky as mine, I would be super interested.
Honestly that’s probably in Apple’s EULA; have you checked?
Well, here’s the statute.
So theoretically Apple could indeed spend upwards of a few hundred grand in legal fees seeking a reasonable royalty for your free or low cost small batch production’s use of their patented invention.
Realistically, why would they do that? Patents are about making money in my opinion. A massive number of people assert patents against Apple compared to when Apple rarely, if ever, asserts its patents. This is because if Apple’s found to infringe, the damages are probably huge.
i know i’m a bit late to the thread, but this is a topic i’ve dealt with (and been frustrated by) for a while.
Even if the tech is patented, could I still make my own and share the process without getting sued?
not entirely safely, if you’re replicating any of the components apple makes that’s covered by the patent. if all you’ve done is figure out how to do it and publish tech specs, the odds are low of apple harassing you, but not zero. you have to evaluate that yourself (but i’d be willing to bet any lawyer knowledgable in the field would tell you not to).
You could also buy a used magsafe 3 port on eBay for $20-$30 and it might work perfectly. I’ve been throwing these ideas around in my mind for a while.
this you can do, and publish documents for. (see below)
That can’t be real. In that same logic you could get sued for reselling your apple product. Wouldn’t people that sell stuff like shadow boxes of electronics or resellers for components on eBay get sued for distributing? I hope that’s not the case.
apple HAS been known to go after people replicating the patented components of peripherals, sometimes even small companies or individuals. the products you can find on the market are generally made by buying actual-apple-originated peripherals, salvaging the components, and reusing them in a new product.
basically, as long as the patent holder (apple in this case) actually made and sold it, then you can resell it (even integrated as part of another product) provided you don’t infringe on another patent in the process. the offending process is making your own version of a patented technology
@0xN1C0 Did you end up making any progress on this?
This would be amazing if progress were made. But I’d also be happy if Framework came up a magsafe alternative that fits into the expansion slot; Framework is in a unique position to offer a low-risk option, I think.
The MagSafe 3 connector just uses a normal CC pin with (I hope) normal PD messages. I think in theory it really is as simple as wiring it up to a USB-C connector.
It doesn’t. At the magnetic end MagSafe does not use USB PD at all. The MagSafe signal pin uses the 1-Wire protocol, not related to USB PD at all. And of course no USB data is carried over MagSafe, so there isn’t any USB whatsoever at the magnetic end.
It’s expected that the same chip would handle the USB-PD end, and Apple’s proprietary signaling for the MagSafe end. Simplifies the cable / lowers cost to not have two custom chips when one will do. Apple has fully custom ICs made as standard practice, since they have more than enough money to do so & it nets a savings for them, I’m sure.
But having the same chip would handle both ends does not mean the signaling is related in any way.
The active part at the MagSafe end with the signal pin, I presume, is done in order to 1) try to prevent non-Apple sold cables / clones, 2) confirm that the connection has been fully made and solid before switching to higher voltage & current. Higher voltages cause arcing issues, so you want initial connection to be done at a lower voltage.
Not sure exactly what you mean “connecting it to CC pin on the receiving side”, can you elaborate?
Pinouts of MagSafe3 list the signal pin as 1-Wire protocol. I presume people have tested it and / or Apple’s patents show it uses 1-Wire as a starting point, then Apple adds their proprietary protocol within that. Not sure if anyone has found how to spoof one or both ends.
Also not sure if USB-IF’s CC signaling is built on top of Dallas Semiconductor’s 1-Wire protocol. If it is, that could explain what I think you mean by the receiving side switching on when CC pin is connected. If you’re connecting CC to Apple’s MagSafe signal pin, and if both USB-IF’s CC signaling & Apple proprietary protocol is built on top of Dallas Semiconductor’s 1-Wire protocol, then that could cause it to pass the first step of Apple’s MagSafe connection checks, i.e. valid 1-Wire is seen, so clearly connection is made, and it’s ok to enable low voltage. But without Apple proprietary protocol under that, the cable isn’t “authorized” so full voltage & current doesn’t happen.
Oh nice.
Good thing you didn’t listen to me, saying that it’s listed as 1-wire protocol. 
I had got that from the pinouts here https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/MagSafe#MagSafe_3. But I failed to check the citation. It’s from Magsafe 2, not 3.
Made a working prototype and, unless I’m still having issues with signal integrity (which is totally possible), the cable expects some extra handshake from the laptop: it does switch on, but then quickly shuts off. And it goes on like this forever, with one cycle taking roughly two seconds.
I would still be interested in this but I guess you reached a dead end here if I understand correctly, right?
If you ever feel like continuing, I‘d still be interested to give you some money even if it means ordering through something like PCB Way and doingmy own assembly.
All the other magnetic charging options just don’t seem very trustworthy.
Given the general policy expressed in Framework supporting far-right racists? - #2 by nrp , I will not be going through with this.