Introducing the new and upgraded Framework Laptop

[bmstrong]

Looks like the first batch of the i5-1240P is now out to August.

[A_Fan]

@Aurelio

Well, I don’t want to be too harsh here (sorry), but in all honesty, if any of us are willing to “jump category” there is really a myriad of options out there.

What Framework offers that is quite Unique is really what’s hard (almost impossible) to find on other laptops:

• some of the best quality reliable components on “thin and light” laptops available on the market;
• simple (and relatively affordable) upgrade path;
• easily available and very reasonably priced spare parts for ALL components;
• concrete and simple possibility of reuse of old MB/Processor combo;

Yeah, guess it comes down to what you’re looking for…something that Framework offers, or not. (e.g. Meaning at the same time, there are things that Framework isn’t offering). Just because an offering is unique, doesn’t necessarily means it meets the appetite of each user.

I have some reservation regarding the “relatively afforable” upgrade path:
Take this as as example: A fully functional i7-1280P system for $1500 CAD.
https://www.newegg.ca/ink-black-msi-summit-e14evo-a12m-030ca-work-business/p/N82E16834156290?Description=1280p&cm_re=1280p-_-34-156-290-_-Product

Whereas Framework’s i7-1280p mainboard and the ‘redesigned’ cover alone costs $1480 CAD.

[GhostLegion]

@A_Fan

Whereas Framework’s i7-1280p mainboard and the ‘redesigned’ cover alone costs $1480 CAD.

One phrase: Economies of Scale

It helps bring down cost when you can place an order worth millions

I wager Framework isn’t anywhere close to the volume discounts that MSI/Dell/HP or any other OEM can acquire (not that I have any inside info, maybe they do)

[A_Fan]

@GhostLegion

One phrase: Economies of Scale

Yeah, the ‘why’ is fine. But reality remains that it will cost the buyer in the end…Framework isn’t a charity afterall…the buyer pays the cost. That’s why I have reservation regarding the “relatively affordable” comment.

[GhostLegion]

@A_Fan

But reality remains that it will cost the buyer in the end

I do understand what you are trying to say but I disagree, “in the end” as scale ramps up, costs will come down, those saving will presumably be passed onto customers as a reward for loyalty. Even the example you posted shows that the cost for an upgrade is $20 cheaper and that is including a top cover replacement.

I’m not going to go into the math (because I’m lazy and no interest in it). But I would suspect that even the i5-1240P offers a performance uplift in both single-threaded and multi-threaded performance and likely offers better performance per dollar than the i7. So yeah, I think the upgrade can absolutely be affordable comparatively.

You’re of course entitled to disagree but that’s where I stand.

[A_Fan]

@GhostLegion

I do understand what you are trying to say but I disagree, “in the end”

The “in the end” refers to per purchase / payment transaction. Not looking to the end of time. The ‘loyalty’ reward is hypercritical / speculation at this point (if they were to make another purchase, a 3rd purchase, down the road). (Plus, if people are buying the 12th gen mainboard for upgrade…aren’t they already a returning / loyal customer? Not seeing much reward in the $1480 price tag on the surface…maybe it’s already discounted…and is still $1480)

$1500 for a complete system that I can use in parallel to an original Framework laptop…vs $1480 to upgrade that ends up with one usable system (and a mainboard & lid on the bench). Hum…

The affordability isn’t likely going to fly for the average joe.

[A_Fan]

@bmstrong

Looks like the first batch of the i5-1240P is now out to August.

Time to market…

[GhostLegion]

I just realized you chose the i7-1280P. Literally the worst value product in the stack. You pay for the premium and vPro certification. Literally anything in the current stack is an upgrade over last gen both in core count and performance. There are affordable upgrade paths for those that are cost conscious. Even i7-1260P (which is what I went with because I want the extra iGPU cores) cost $400 less than the i7-1280P. And if all you want is a new mainboard, then just buy that for the cost of $1360, $120 less than mainboard and new cover.

Yes, the upgrades are affordable

Alright, all prices are in CAD.

Cheapest i7-1260P is $1700 on Newegg and a hair over $1k for upgrade kit.

Cheapest i7-1280P is $1500 on Newegg (weird but ok) with roughly the same for Framework

Now we get to the what people care about when it comes to affordability: the i5

$1300 on Newegg and $700 on Framework

You want something meant for business use at cheap prices? I’m sorry but no, enterprise always will get the short-end of the straw and get priced gouged

[A_Fan]

@GhostLegion

I just realized you chose the i7-1280P

Because I have the i7-1185G7. Or are you suggesting that going from i7-1185G7 to an i7-1260P is still considered a worth while upgrade? Need the vPro…hum…

[GhostLegion]

@A_Fan

Because I have the i7-1185G7. Or are you suggesting that going from i7-1185G7 to an i5-1260P is still considered a worth while upgrade?

Yeah it is, I totally get wanting the i7, that’s what I preordered although not the top-end model

1240P nets you 8 more cores still and retains 4 P cores all at a newer and more performant arch

[A_Fan]

@GhostLegion

Yeah it is, I totally get wanting the i7, that’s what I preordered although not the top-end model

1240P nets you 8 more cores still and retains 4 P cores all at a newer and more performant arch

Guess it makes sense for those who don’t need vPro. …and doesn’t make sense for those who do?

[GhostLegion]

@A_Fan

Guess it makes sense for those who don’t need vPro. …and doesn’t make sense for those who do?

Pretty much exactly that

That price premium priced me right out, forced me to step down to the 1260P but then, I don’t need vPro

[A_Fan]

@GhostLegion

Pretty much exactly that

That price premium priced me right out, forced me to step down to the 1260P but then, I don’t need vPro

Think we’ve reached a common ground then. Those vPro use cases will need to be scoped out. Does that mean the Framework isn’t quite ready for enterprise yet? (Yes, there are, of course, many other factors beyond costs alone)

[GhostLegion]

@A_Fan

Think we’ve reached a common ground then. Those vPro use cases will need to be scoped out. Does that mean the Framework isn’t quite ready for enterprise yet?

Definitely, its kinda a given from what I understand that on-site repairs be offered for enterprise use. Dell, HP, all the big names offer this AND volume discounts on products. You aren’t seeing the volume discounts enterprise customers would receive nor is Framework offering that kind of support they need to in order to compete in that space.

Framework needs to scale up to compete there as I would argue that their product squarely takes aim at the XPS 13 and 15 and that market segment.

Also B2B is where the money is.

Edit: It’s odd but I’m not certain how much IT departments will be interested in doing hardware modifications, I imagine that instead of replacing boards, they would order entire new laptops. Not sure if Framework would buy back the old ones at a discount or what…certainly they could buy them back at a discount from when they were sold and then re-sell them again on the marketplace as refurbs, thus doubling the income from the same product

Hmm…actually this sounds like a great idea, who doesn’t want to sell the same product twice at a profit each time?

[bibliobone]

Just ordered mine and am in Batch 2! I’m super excited.

The only downside of the upgrade is that mine won’t ship until August! Ah well, it’s worth the wait, I suppose.

[A_Fan]

@anon81945988

whereas others are likely to find a use for it or sell it.

…that’s the insanity: Shell out more money and time to purchase additional parts to make use of the mainboard & lid. Or sell the parts at what likely will be a substantially cost…if there’s a buyer (and no warranty for the buyer), and left with one useful system. Lucky if would even get $600 from that.

@anon81945988

So the price difference is unlikely to be as you lay it out.

It’s as laid out, just didn’t list out all the permutations :

1. Pay $1500 (plus tax) and have two fully usable systems.
2. Pay $1480 (plus tax) and have one usable system and a mainboard & lid on the bench
3. Pay $1480 (plus tax) and have one usable system, sell the part. Say, I get $600 back. → Pay $880 (plus tax) and have one usable system.

So, between 1 and 3:
$1500 for two functional systems (one faster, one slower), or $880 to only have one faster system.

[A_Fan]

@anon81945988

I don’t need an upgrade and definitely don’t want the hassle of getting rids of bits and pieces.

Which brings the question: Great…we can upgrade…but who is it really for / targeting?

[A_Fan]

@anon81945988

I think it’s just an offer, it’s not for any one

I have no more question.

@anon81945988

want the latest and have no concern about finances

Those would pick any best laptop at the time…and not be stuck to a platform.

[bmstrong]

I’m kind of shocked we haven’t had any videos of the new design at announcement.

[bmstrong]

@anon81945988

What are you hoping to see?

Principles of construction, design and testing of the newly redesigned lid vs the first generation.

Official video guides for screen, speaker replacement, etc.

Any difference in chassis construction from the vPro WiFi models vs the newly integrated WiFi?

Design and difference between the new hinge replacement vs the first generation hinge along with a best practice for doing a replacement or hinge upgrade/swap.

Best practice(s) and tips for new motherboard replacement.

Wouldn’t mind seeing the engineering team walk through the reasoning and philosophy why they made the decisions on the first generation product vs the new models.