Introducing the new and upgraded Framework Laptop

Framework Team Blog
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Original post by nrp (here), linked to by @GhostLegion here:

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nrp IS Framework’s CEO / Founder. Did you not click on the links? Or are you saying posts made by nrp with “Framework Team” and “Blog” tags still don’t represent “Framework” (the company)?

Here, screenshot:

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I know that the DIY kits with the 12th Gen are shipping in August right now. But does anyone know when the mainboard and lid combination will be ready to ship from the markets place? I have seen and read tons of articles about this update but know none of them have mentioned when they will be available.

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Yeah, that! Also the EU marketplace availability, as I don’t want to pre-order whole laptop.

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Worried about battery life, as first generation frame work where not really good at battery life + all the first reviews of 12th gen intel gives bad battery life.

  • ZenBook 14 Oled : 8 h 40 min with 75Wh Vs 11th doing 9H46 with 63Wh !
  • Galaxy book2 pro : 7H20 with 63Wh (values provided by lesnumerique tests protocol, playing video)
  • Foreseen Framework 12th gen : 5H video playback with 55Wh

If the framework retains same battery pack (55Wh), it should loose at least 1H00, but more likely ~2H of battery life. (about 5H video playback in comparison to those 2 laptops)
Please let us know ASAP the expected battery life of the upcoming laptop.

Finally this wall 12th gen intel is weird, Big-littel is supposed to lower power consumption when giving the same workload, as those test gives the same video playing workload they should all see a decrease in power usage
but exactely the opposite happen
 kernel optimisation maybe
Bottom line most of those manufacturers have increased batterie size of their models with 12th gen.

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Both 60W Boost and 30W sustained are indeed achievable with 12th Gen. Here’s an example just now of running Cinebench R23 under the Multi Core test. Make sure you have the power setting set to “Best Performance” in Windows and have power plugged in. How long the system will stay in Boost will vary based on your ambient temperature and system to system, but a few seconds is typical. That is, Intel’s Boost (PL2) is intended to improve performance and responsiveness for short bursts of peak activity, while the sustained performance (PL1) indicates the performance for longer loads.

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Awesome. That’s good news. Is this the engineering unit, or pre-production unit? Also, was this while the unit is plugged-in with the Framework 65W power adapter? Or was this (screenshot) during on battery?

What’s the system to system variation if they were all running the same OS, drivers, software
 Is there a QC check on the thermal performance of each unit as they come off the assembly line
and what’s the passing criteria?

Notebookcheck has the 1280p scoring 11480 points in Cinebench R23:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/i7-1280P-vs-i7-1260P-vs-i9-12900HK_14059_14064_14041.247596.0.html

The Framework unit seems to be currently around / almost 10% lower. Will the production 12th gen board be any better than what’s shown in the screenshot?

(Granted, the score difference could be the difference between ‘few seconds’ vs, say, ‘48 seconds’ tau capable units)

It’s definitely an improvement over the 11th gen (as Framework Support thinks it’s ‘normal’ not to be able to reach 60W TDP for the 11th gen).

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Another question, the screenshot shows Windows 10 with a build number of 22000. Does it make a difference?

Windows 10 doesn’t seem to have this build number out yet (Unless it’s Windows 11). Looking at the rounded corners, it does look like it should state Windows 11. Seems like Cinebench is reporting the OS incorrectly?

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Follow-up question @nrp if I’m reading Intel’s guidance correctly here Tau can be set by the OEM with a minimum of .1 secs and a maximum of nearly 8 mins, with a recommended setting of 28 secs. Exactly how long have you guys set Tau for?

This does not encourage me too much as it implies that even the 28 secs recommended by Intel is not achievable. Instead being limited to what I consider a “few” seconds (like 6-7 secs). Given that the Cinebench run you posted only seems to have just started 5 secs before the screenshot, can you elaborate on this?

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Just finished lapping the heatsink of the Framework laptop, and it seems like there’s a problem / issue with it from the factory, at least on my particular heatsink.

While lapping the heatsink, it became clear that the contact plate is dished / not flat. This created a poor contact point for 1 of the 4 cores, causing this particular core (physical core) to heat up before the other 3
subsequently causing thermal throttling to kick in.

After lapping (still not completely flat yet
that dish is deep, about 2/10 of a mm it seems), the processor can momentarily reach 59.1W peak for a split second.

Background, I used the Shapton Glass Stone (just a whetstone really) for 1000, 2000, 6000 and 10000 grits.

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Tau is 28seconds on the Framework Laptop.

But you get something like this:
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The area in red is the potential performance lost due to thermal throttling.
The processor doesn’t reach 60w (my unit, 11th gen), and the wattage will continue to drop as the processor is trying to maintain the temperature to under 100c. The duration of the PL2 is 28secs, then PL1 kicks in
dropping to 28w, sustained.

The most ideal / capable laptops would have the red area in blue, full 60w for the entire duration of tau. But that’s not the Framework laptop.

The fan speed profile doesn’t seem to change in Windows between the different Power Modes. Ideally, if the fan spin-up can be more responsive / aggressive in “Best performance” mode, that could change the slope gradient of the thermal throttling period
to something a bit flatter.

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Correctly and incorrectly. The major version of the product as reported through all of the version-related APIs (as far down as RtlGetVersion) is 10. The marketing version is not reported through any APIs.

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So Windows 11 is both Windows 11 and Windows 10 at the same time
that’s one way to do quantum computing


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It’s taking all my strength not to purchase 12th gen
 I REALLY want to see an AMD main board before I do an upgrade. .

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That is good to see, I’m having difficulty achieving that on 11th gen i5-1135G7. Where you in a walk in freezer by chance? :wink:

I cannot get above ~40W with Cinebench R23 / cpu benchmarks and only ~50W with prime95.

The limit is always indicated as thermal but even at the start of R23 (when there is thermal headroom) the power never seems to target above the low 40s.

This is a thin and light laptop, I’m not expecting a desktops performance profile but I do expect it to be able to hit the 60W boost it states it can do.

i5-1135G7 (set to “best performance”) Windows 10.

R23:

R23
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Prime95:

Prime95
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If anyone has the equipment
maybe test out how flat the contact plate is of the CPU heatsink. Something like what’s done here:

Mounting pressure on laptops can’t (typically) be as high as that of desktops, so to get the best thermal transfer of any contact made, flatness is even more of a key factor in laptops. Ideally, as flat and as polished as the die.

Doesn’t have to be as precise as these examples:

And definitely doesn’t need to be this flat:

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but basically - SO WHAT? You have new spec, while We can’t buy ANY spec still in Poland. Sorry, but I was expecting to be able to at least prorder late 2021. We are in mid 2022, you have NEW GEAR and still nothing in Poland, new nor old. I really need to replace my t420 thinkpad, and if there is nothing till next month I’m just going to bite the bullet and go with apple m1 macbook. Sorry.

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Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you view the matter), you trying to say “I won’t buy this product if it’s not available next month!” won’t magically make Framework go “oh okay here you go it’s available in Poland now.”

This kind of stuff takes time, money, cooperation with shipping services, planning, and many other things. Framework doesn’t have the same capabilities as Dell, Apple, Lenovo, HP, or other companies. They need time to do things, and Framework can’t take risks.

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No, I’m not making demands. I’m venting my frustration and sadness.

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I see this as demand
for the product (as in supply and demand)
with Framework not able to supply yet.

Yeah, just go with something else for now. It’s not something you want to buy without applicable warranty for your region.

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