Introducing the new and upgraded Framework Laptop

Also agree. Nothing stops Framework from being the one to change the direction of the industry…like what it’s been doing with repairability.

i.e. Repairability goes hand in hand to also make things more robust…less repair to be needed.

4 Likes

The 12th Gen Mainboards do indeed come with a RTC battery to preserve the RTC clock when the main battery is disconnected or in ship mode. We’ve also improved reset circuits to prevent the RTC battery from needing to be removed to reset in the rare instances where the processor goes into a bad state with low RTC battery voltage like on 11th Gen.

Coin cell battery holders in general are pretty bad, but especially so when X/Y/Z need to be kept to a minimum to fit on a laptop mainboard. Since it should be exceedingly rare that that RTC battery needs to be cycled on the 12th Gen Mainboard, this shouldn’t be an issue in practice.

11 Likes

Did you ever think about using the Lenovo type CMOS battery with a standard lithium cell with a connector coming out of it? Even though it’s proprietary the battery you use can be hard to find at times?

It isn’t here in the US, admittedly it typically isn’t available in your local grocery or drugstore but there are stores dedicated just to batteries here such as Batteries+Bulbs. Literally all they sell is various batteries from automotive to coin cell and light bulbs of varying wattage. As always, there is always online purchasing options.

Any news on the “X Y Z” battery life ? :smiley:
JUst ordered my laptop and am hopping for a real battery life under ubuntu 22.04 …

PS: by the way the google transalte texte doesn t mean anything french :smiley: Need to update the inters aswell :smiley: Stand by while lid is closed = une durée de mise en veille de X heure avec le capot fermé. For now it says you have to wait hours for the lid to close Lol

1 Like

Awesome! That’s great to hear! Appreciate the details & improvement.

Any info regarding questions 3 and 4?

Between the 11th and 12th gen mainboards, I wonder which will get the TB4 certification first.

Looking at the GeekBench 5 multicore scores, where can we expect the Framework laptop to come in around?
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?q=1280p&sort=multicore_score

1 Like

Just got the this reply from Framework Support asking about the unreachable 60W boost of my laptop:
image

Sounds like Framework Support is saying it’s wasn’t designed to be practically ‘capable’ of 60W boost… just ‘theoretical’ (Intel’s wording).

Sent a reply asking about Framework Support what the 60w Boost mentioned in product material is meant to convey then in this case…as it seems unattainable.

1 Like

This is a little concerning to me and I am very interested in knowing what tweaks I can do to get the laptop to its maximum potential.

That’s just my interpretation of the response from Framework Support.

Currently waiting for them to clarify what “60w boost” means…and how should we understand it, and have the right expectation (because it seems like the reply is saying what I expect is not what the laptop can do).

2 Likes

@RandomRandomRandom

I’m not sure they ever advertised that it could indefinitely do 60W turbo

1 Like

I don’t expect ‘indefinitely’.

Here’s what was in mentioned in my ticket:
PROCHOT / Thermal Throttling is seen within 5 seconds, with max TDP only reaching around 51.5 – 52.2W.

Never reached 60W boost, let alone 60W for the duration of 25 – 30 seconds tau.

Man, this brings the question of the 30W and 60W numbers of the 12th gen mainboard. Is the 30W sustainable? (For the 11th gen, 28W was sustainable, which was really good)

Has the 12th gen mainboard cooling been improved to ‘reach’ 60W (“run up to”)?

Unless Framework is lying…

EDIT: It is worth noting that the i7-1280P isn’t mentioned there, probably because of the extra 2 cores.

Update from Framework Support with this response (including the red markup lines):

That 60W mention doesn’t look promising.

Some update:
Got the following response from Framework Support, specifically on what the “60w boost meant to convey”:
"Thank you for your inquiry.

As to what has been mentioned in the past conversation, this is a way to show off that it has the ability to boost and almost perform like a desktop processor.
"

Base on this, and previous replies, the ‘60w’ is not attainable with this laptop at room temperature (and Framework considers it ‘normal behavior’).

The ‘boost’ wording is meant to give a subjective sense of ‘like a desktop processor’. (And well, technically, it does boost / pl2)

Wish Framework would provide a more realistic number such a 50w or 52w, as that’s what seems to be reachable by a few users here.

Probably wise to ignore that “60w boost”…seems like marketing department at work here.

Yeah, I got played by the 60w numbers on paper. It’s not achievable.

There is a major difference between the theoretical boost and real figures. You will generally never reach 60 watts maybe 55 but not usually 60. TDP is under maximum theoretical load. Never actually tested on a laptop.

1 Like

or Intel is lying, which wouldn’t be the first time by a long shot.

Isn’t it like desktops where the boost is simply limited by thermal headroom? So if the chip was cool enough it would reach ~60W until TAU expires? When testing I got up to the low 50Ws but immediately thermal throttling resulting in continuous dropping power down to 28W.

2 Likes

Think there might be a couple of ways to look at this:

  1. Design and tested to be capable of cooling the heat generated by the theoretical load. Or
  2. Design & hope to be capable of cooling the heat generated by the theoretical load. But not tested.

[Decent] Mobile workstations & gaming laptops fall into the first category, generally. With consumer laptops falling into the second category. Business laptops, somewhere between the two, depends on specific model and pricing brackets.

I know for a fact that some mobile workstations do boost up to 80w, and doesn’t throttle at all for the full duration of 56 seconds. But they’re way thicker / bulkier. For example, the P15 Gen 2, with 11800H. The 11800H can have a PL2 up to 100w+, but Lenovo limited it 80w OOTB. Different models have different thermal solutions for the thermal headroom and different actual performance expectation.

Thin & light laptops definitely have some compromises, and Framework isn’t immune to this. But the issue doesn’t seem to be around whether it’s powerful or not…but more about whether it can realistically, practically do what’s stated by Framework, “allows the CPU to run up to” 60w boost. Having the 60w expectation is not unreasonable if it’s stated in Framework blogs. IMO, what’s not quite reasonable is that it’s stated in the blogs, but can’t realistically deliver.

How’s that considered as “allows” if it thermal throttle during regular room temperature?

2 Likes