UK law gives the user 6 years to complain with local goods I’m not sure how this works with the US but you have a 2 year warranty
The problem is, if you don’t follow the setting up instructions and guide that say to charge the BIOS/CMOS/RTC battery for 24 hours then you have no claim.
If you do that and then follow any further tests by Framework they may replace any faulty part or the whole.
But is this a repair or a user failure ???
My argument would be that this issue wasn’t clear and I find that maybe a cause for concern.
Yes but the inference was that I should have known about that from the start when I got the machine.
It isn’t anywhere in the initial or basic instructions anyone needs to get their laptop working.
Yes now I can try the 24 hours charge test. If that doesn’t work then I assume I have a faulty laptop and Framework can work with me to deal with the situation to get a properly working one or refund me.
It has a discharge capacity of 30µA/h and 17mAh capacity given a nominal 567 hours of use or 24 days
So if the computer is not connected to power and the ML1220 is low there will be a problem in that it will not do it’s function
Now the issue is the idea that the laptop won’t power on without the ML1220 being above , let’s say 2.3V
That could be a design flaw which I think has been attended to in the 12gen.
But this topic isn’t saying that it says it will work when plugged in, so the ML1220 hasn’t lost voltage to the degree the laptop won’t turn on it just requires more charge.
This would sensibly a design feature to stop the ML1220 from discharging so much it has to be removed to recover.
This last situation is the worst case and anyone would want to avoid that.
So now it’s down to the user
do they keep the ML1220 charged or not. The notion is it should be plugged in for maybe 10 hours a week minimum
If the user still has a problem I can only think of two other issues
there is a higher drain on the ML1220 and so it needs charging more often, maybe every few days. That would not be by design
the ML1220 is duff and has a very low capacity. > Failed
You are actually adding to much of the repetition by not seeming to grasp what some of us see as a simple situation.
Feature or flaw?
Never had a laptop in 20+ years of laptop usage/repair and support act like this.
I don’t know how much more simple I can make this. I just want clarification from Framework.
Then we can move forward.
If it’s a feature then it needs to be highlighted to potential casual users like myself before purchase. .
If its a flaw, can we have a fix or a refund? As more people buy in the potential grows for more users to have the issue, especially if it’s in the Gen12 too.
That bit I can see but what situation does it refer to as not all users have such a complaint.
But sure I’ve had laptops, exclusively, since 1996 and never had such a problem and still don’t, yet
So it doesn’t have to be either.
I don’t think it would be a feature, who wants that, but a flaw ??
This is what I am trying to grasp. Different users have different issues which may all come down to the ML1220 being discharged, but for various reasons.
So whereas there may be no flaw in design there are clearly some users are not happy; and as you, others and I have said, clear prior information would have made sense as some people may well have chosen not to buy.
But again there is info that the ML1220 requires charging but my understanding is that in other laptops that is not an issue that the user has to deal with, or is it??
Essentially, the options presented means Framework will need to take accountability here (whatever that entails).
If it’s a feature: It wasn’t listed. Framework didn’t sufficiently detailed out this behaviour to potential customers.
If it’s a flaw: Framework needs to repair / replace this.
In either case, however Framework wants to spin it, there needs to be forward action.
For example…If the 12th gen mainboard turns out to be solid, can we get additional discounts if we decide to upgrade? Or, maybe, this is a good time to push for Framework to engineer and sell an ITX / ATX conversion kit? That way, the board can live on…in some other form.
I’m going to be that pain-in-the-butt guy:
It doesn’t really “fix” the issue…it just “gets out of the state caused by the symptom of the issue”, or “attempt to avoid the symptom”.
The outcome of having “fixed” the issue is that the laptop can be powered up, without CMOS battery pull / board reset or USB-PD plugging in when both the CMOS battery and main battery still have charge after 12 months* or more.
(* CMOS battery, nor the main battery typically have a self-discharge of 100% within 12 months)
Ah, this I can somewhat explain:
The charge time required to charge any given capacity battery doesn’t quite directly / linearly correlate to the battery capacity. But has a closer relationship to the battery chemistry and its designed drain rate.
e.g. if the battery has a 1mAh capacity…it may still require 24 hours to charge it
Imagine if a battery’s capacity is related to the graphical lattice below:
… = 1mAh
… = 2mAh
…
The lattice run in parallel to give that capacity. The rate to charge 1 lattice, or 2 is the same…doesn’t go any faster.
The max recommended charge rate for the ML 1220 is 1.2mA so if 1mA is used it would take 17 hours and as it is voltage regulated it won’t supply 1mA continuously hence 24 hours seems reasonable.
The other note is that Framework recommend a 6 to 8 hour top up once a week if the machine is not used.
Let’s say 7 hours charging at 1mA/h equates to a loss of 7mAh for a week or the laptop is draining it at a rate of 1mAh per day or 0.05mA/h
The recommended draw is 0.03mA/h
The idea of it draining at 0.05mA/h is down to the assumed charge rate but the rate could be lower as charging is slower which would mean the draw may be near the 0.03mA/h
Individual’s can test how long the laptop can be OFF after being fully charged as recommended.
I’m not suggesting anyone does and I’ll be using mine daily so I won’t be testing.
It will be difficult to get reliable and accurate data on what users experience given the above so unless a person runs through a test with Framework’s guidance etc. then it all amounts to hearsay, sad to say.
Just trying to gather facts for my letter to Framework. I’ve done legal work and I have a daughter who is a barrister. Heard of the pirates last stand but didn’t watch.
This is the UK we have Boris the Brazen Buffoon to watch for years past and years to come, maybe.
