Guys at this stage we just need Framework to officially confirm if its a design feature or a design flaw.
And if it is a design flaw then what steps are they going to take to deal with it or mitigate it.
Is this another fault/bug that needs fixing? That’s all.
You are actually adding to much of the repetition by not seeming to grasp what some of us see as a simple situation.
Feature or flaw?
Never had a laptop in 20+ years of laptop usage/repair and support act like this.
I don’t know how much more simple I can make this. I just want clarification from Framework.
Then we can move forward.
If it’s a feature then it needs to be highlighted to potential casual users like myself before purchase. .
If its a flaw, can we have a fix or a refund? As more people buy in the potential grows for more users to have the issue, especially if it’s in the Gen12 too.
Essentially, the options presented means Framework will need to take accountability here (whatever that entails).
If it’s a feature: It wasn’t listed. Framework didn’t sufficiently detailed out this behaviour to potential customers.
If it’s a flaw: Framework needs to repair / replace this.
In either case, however Framework wants to spin it, there needs to be forward action.
For example…If the 12th gen mainboard turns out to be solid, can we get additional discounts if we decide to upgrade? Or, maybe, this is a good time to push for Framework to engineer and sell an ITX / ATX conversion kit? That way, the board can live on…in some other form.
I’m going to be that pain-in-the-butt guy:
It doesn’t really “fix” the issue…it just “gets out of the state caused by the symptom of the issue”, or “attempt to avoid the symptom”.
The outcome of having “fixed” the issue is that the laptop can be powered up, without CMOS battery pull / board reset or USB-PD plugging in when both the CMOS battery and main battery still have charge after 12 months* or more.
(* CMOS battery, nor the main battery typically have a self-discharge of 100% within 12 months)
24 hours to charge a tiddly 16mAh battery seems a bit extreme too.
Ah, this I can somewhat explain:
The charge time required to charge any given capacity battery doesn’t quite directly / linearly correlate to the battery capacity. But has a closer relationship to the battery chemistry and its designed drain rate.
e.g. if the battery has a 1mAh capacity…it may still require 24 hours to charge it
Imagine if a battery’s capacity is related to the graphical lattice below:
… = 1mAh
… = 2mAh
…
The lattice run in parallel to give that capacity. The rate to charge 1 lattice, or 2 is the same…doesn’t go any faster.
Yeah I’m just used to being able to charge a 4000mAh battery in like 45 minutes. 
At that rate it would take me 250 days to charge my phone!
Someone’s been watching too much of the Turd’s trial.
LoL…have been watching that here as well.
Support replied and told me they will not fix the issue and that is “final” and advised me again to sell the machine.
I would advise anyone to stay away from framework.
@anon81945988 if you have legal background, any interest in a class action?
Not too many other options in the US when a company chooses to ignore their customers unfortunately. The only other thing that tends to work is social media pressure.
I’m pretty blown away by how poorly framework is handling this. Imagine someone in framework having a title like “Head of Customer Experience” but their job is actually the opposite of ensuring good customer experiences and instead telling their customers that it’s “final” and they should sell the machine. That’s like big evil Corp level moves. So early in the company life cycle to have jabs that low. It really bugs me.
Wow,
I thought my FW would just turnout to be a rare case.
This is not ideal, I take my laptop into network closets and other places where there usually is not an open outlet. Wondering what the minimum power requirements are to get this fired up after a long set.
The problem I had (have?) is it not starting up unless ac power connected.
As a slight aside since a 24 hours charge (see below the topic I started) I have charged it twice for an hour or so just to get back to 80% and like today it started fine.
More info here
There are three main threads as far as I know, this, mine above and one or two more on CMOS inc this…
In my thread above I note the problem I had, the eventual “solution” and how I am progressing day to day whilst waiting a month before doing a 24 hour plus charge again.
Like many I have tried the “proper” way i.e. direct to support. Like many after a while when replying to them I found that I was being ignored, and provided with what appeared to be relevant information, which turned out to be irrelevant and certainly incomplete information. Loose connections, the wrong initial charging process on a DIY machine etc.
I found the incomplete part by reading the other posts I located and by being informed by others.
In no one place (possibly a part of blog by Framework? ) or a post did I find the complete picture, possibly in one post of a “support” response, seen as a long post in italics"…
Found it, this one…
In general Framework didn’t pick up on this problem, as neither they nor Intel not the CMOS software writers had a situation where they didn’t charge a battery for at least 24 hours + then have the PC off for quite a few days.
Add to this problems manifested themselves in different ways, sometimes it took the attachment of a power supply on both sides to fix it (or at least help) sometimes the complete reset procedure (main battery and CMOS battery disconnected) possibly other situations I have missed.
All I can say is read all the posts referred to here, and unlike me ! 
try and read ALL of each post before coming to a view.
If there was a way to list just the relevant points (haha, that depends on the individual and users vs Framework info too) then I would make such a post, but the only people who can make such a post are the owners of a forum (community) i.e. Framework.
Unfortunately, but maybe not, it’s not possible for an individual member to own and be the only person posting on a thread.
Maybe someone has a blog somewhere on this topic (problem)
Regards…
Maybe missed June 28th
June 29th 8th day powers up without ac connected
Every day / time you power up the laptop…you’re essentially restarting your test case. Because the test case really is about NOT starting it for x days…then try to start it up.
So, in essence, it’s not 8th day…you’re still on the 1-day since last power up.
(Unless I’ve misunderstood your intended test case)
I thought he/she was intended to replicate the issue…which would require minimal deviation from reported cases / scenario…with or without our understanding.
I think Burt is testing how long the BIOS battery can continue to power the RTC system without requiring a charge/AC input. This isn’t Schrödinger’s cat 
Struggling to understand what isn’t understood.
Yes to the fact that I didn’t state what I was trying to achieve; which is…
BACKGROUND
The original problem I had was the laptop charged to 100% ish, left for more than a day or two then when I attempted to start it it would not.
From new I had never charged it more than long enough to fully charge the main battery. Didn’t know the 24 hour stuff, no policy from Framework on this (probably is; I’m very absent minded).
The number of days left without switching on simply varied depending on my need to use the laptop.
With lots of red herrings the final analysis from reading lots of posts was that the CMOS battery was low capacity, the drain was high, and high enough to cause the laptop to fail to start after a day or three.
I and others went through a not particularly good experience with support, being provided with a number of different possibilities, wrong charging side when new, loose connections, resetting whole machine, measuring CMOS battery level etc.
THE PROBLEM
Lots of different info from Framework, but no official info or ack of the problem (please correct me here, I didn’t read all of the threads right through) but essentially charging main battery just to get it full and switching on several times a week, ends up with “It won’t power on”
THE PROPOSED “SOLUTION” (from Framework)
Charge the laptop for at least 24 hours once a month.
THE TEST
Does charging once a month for at least 24 hours (regardless of charging now and then in between) mean you have avoided the power on problem? That’s it !!
And so the way to run the test,
Charge for 24 hours or so.
Try switching on various times in the (hopefully) 30 days
Leaving the laptop 30 days untouched is unrealistic as I need to use it.
Not charging a little during the 30 days is unrealistic.
How often to check the CMOS battery is too low to allow the Laptop to start. How long is a piece of string?
Essentially short charging spells during the 30 days isn’t going to make much difference (yes I can do the sums if needed)
So… The most practical solution 9for me) is switch it on at least once a day.
See one day f it fails to start
See then if attaching the power supply (the Framework one) allows it to start.
If this fails after it does not start then open the box and check the voltage on the battery (real test would be with the battery connected so on a load.) No utility to check anything CMOS battery related, I checked with FW on this)
If necessary do the full reset stuff, CMOS and main battery disconnected.
In the meantime log (here on my own originated post) the daily situation.
Is this approach right or wrong? Who knows but at least it is something.
Different / Better ideas welcome !
BUT if you suggest a better / different idea TEST IT YOURSELF (please) !! and log the results here.
It does not matter if the idea behind the test is or apparently is wrong as often this is how something new is discovered.
Bye for now
PS The “effort” from me is to press the ON button every day
O and type a few words to record the outcome.