Exactly. It is one of the questions I am going to ask. How come the RTC can be drained so quickly ~ it must be a flaw.
More that 2 to 3 years with a non rechargeable 2 weeks with a rechargable. Apart from tottaly inconvienient the RTC will wear out very quickly so where is the advantage?
Totaly user unfriendly.
But given how quickly they designed and made an otherwise oustanding machine I suppose something had to go wrong.
I don’t want to take away from this. I wanted this to be a machine I keep for a really long time and support the framework mission of transparency and repairability. The build quality is great but my experience with CMOS and laptop clock batteries has been that it’s so rare that I have to replace them that I just can’t understand what is going on here. I’ve never had to manually set time on any tech I’ve ever owned as much as I have had to on the framework laptop. It’s just a super poor user experience so much so that I don’t even want to use the machine anymore.
The transparency… Or lack there of is the biggest concern I have given how framework started.
I think, here on the forum, it has all been said, how disappointing this issue unacceptable and upsetting for some users.
UK time here. Hope you can relax for a while.
I think most people won’t find the RTC thread by searching and instead will find this one when searching for the symptoms of the framework laptop not powering up unless it is connected to AC power. Since the discussion is continuing in the other thread, I thought we probably need to link to it again:
I had an unusual issue that occurred with my Framework laptop.
I have not used my Framework laptop for almost a month. Last night I decided I wanted to charge the battery the format a external drive to use as I want to dual boot with Windows and Linux with the laptop. I connected the power supply and noticed immediately the battery charge light didn’t turn on. So I attempted to turn on the laptop and nothing, not even the power light on the finger print reader/power button came on.
I removed the modules except for 1 and nothing… Tried connecting the adapter directly to the port and nothing. Next I thought it was the battery so I took the keyboard off but also check the connection on it and it was good. Disconnected the battery and reconnected the power and nothing. So I look at the CMOS battery thinking it could have gone bad and I need a replacement but then I saw it said rechargeable. I decided to take the CMOS battery out and waited 10 seconds to take a gamble and see if the CMOS needed to clear.
Put the CMOS battery back in and connected power back and the charge light came back on and I can turn on the laptop but it take a little for POST to kick in but it is working now.
I just found it odd. Could the reason be is because I had it not used it for so long and the CMOS battery needed to be recharged and/or reset by removing it?
Has anyone else experiencing similar issue?
Thank you
Yes this is ‘normal’ will add a link
This CMOS battery pull is required in the case where the Intel processor is in that ‘stuck’ state, caused by low CMOS battery voltage…if I’m not mistaken.
In some cases, the processor doesn’t get into a stuck state, and the CMOS battery pull is not required. Just need to plug in the USB-PD.
Current known workaround to avoid either cases all together is to make sure that you:
It’s a design fault. Waiting for framework to come up with a fix.
Fingers crossed. Otherwise return it if you can or sell it before it gets out to the mass tech media.
A really unpleasant bit of advice, to encourage someone to be devious and to load another person with the users problem ??
So we agree it’s a faulty product?
I have no problems with the product. The issue I have is not knowing before hand that the RTC battery may discharge in little over a week in some circumstances which encumbers the user to effect a workaround.
It’s the lack of prior information from Framework before purchase that see as being irresponsible given I consider many may not use a laptop for weeks and on occasion for weeks.
However this doesn’t effect me as I use it daily.
Where the problem will arise for me is as time passes and the RTC dies of it would happen more often and if I buy a future laptop I can’t happily put this away and bring it out a few years later to use it, as I can will my 25 year old Dell.
So yes I agree there is a lack of prior information but that’s all and of course you don’t seem to have a problem with that as you encourge to pass this lack of concern on.
What may be worse is you and anyone who acts in the way you suggest may be even more questionable as Framework can argue they never let the prototypes sit around for a week or two to see what happened, so they were ‘ignorant’.
I also wanted to add to this. The reason the laptop takes more time than usual to load on first boot after reseating the RTC battery is that it has to retrain the RAM. This also happens on desktops when changing RAM, or I believe when clearing CMOS on those as well, and will take longer the higher RAM capacity is in the system.
Below is someone’s blog about this issue. Thanks, someone! I plan to use this page as a secondary reference source (it’s like a second option, not a primary source) for this topic on the Framework Wikipedia.
I’m glad to see some reviewers are able to concisely summarize this issue and get it out there for people. Thanks for sharing this.
Yeah, I agree! In the case of the Framework, while many things happen in this community forum or outside the community every day, it’s important for someone or a web media to write an article about a specific topic as a second opinion. Wikipedia encourages adding a secondary source to the content on the page. Adding only a primary source (= article by Framework) is not enough.
I actually already added the blog page above to the Wikipedia page.
I quoted your post with the review link in another thread with a call to action. I believe the issue has been summarized quite well in that thread, and it’s the thread that @nrp has already responded to before Framework, and their support team started ignoring the issue.
Prefer the option that people can or could rather then the demand than shall or should
My wording definitely wasn’t the best. To clarify, the message I was trying to get out was more along the lines of “For those that want to continue expressing their dissatisfaction with the way Framework, as a company, is handling their own proposed resolutions to the issue that several users are claiming to have, here are some options to continue bringing this to their attention through multiple avenues.”
That just wouldn’t roll off the tongue though, so I decided to simplify my argument. A little too much apparently.
That’s quite funny trying to shorten what you want to say and then having to say even more 
I just have this issue with group force, like bullying. Sure there’s no doubt it can work but it’s unpleasant the older I get.
I think it’s given age many things have settled down like residence and finances, so there’s just no need to force or encourage people to act. It’s also the older I get the more embarrasing it is that I can’t deal with the holes I fall into with open eyes. Oh! and I’m still constantly digging holes I fall into.
But no doubt I have at times encouraged others to pressure the big boys, like Monsanto but that was more for arguments sake and fun.
This issue with what seems to be the way the RTC is employed doesn’t warrant more pressure on Framework I’m sure they have got the message.
Still an individual that finds it totaly unworkable can use legal paths to make their case.
All the best, thanks for responding.
I really think Framework, in good conscience, has a responsibility to include some kind of note on the 11th gen product info / sales page with specific mention of this issue / behaviour / characteristic / flaw…
Forum posts / replies / blogs…while fairly ‘official’ isn’t the usual pre-sale product info gathering channel.