Laptop won't power on unless i plug in AC power

[A_Fan]

@alowndar

If that was instead a reference to the improvement of the 12th gen boards that’s not very reassuring; I’ll get an extra week or two until the same issue appears.

The fact that they still need this (below) is not very comforting…:

@nrp

We’ve also improved reset circuits to prevent the RTC battery from needing to be removed to reset in the rare instances where the processor goes into a bad state with low RTC battery voltage like on 11th Gen.

I read this “rare” instances as unresolved.

[amoun]

I have been thinking of having a specific topic about the RTC as this topic referrences the AC power and my concern is that the focus on the RTC being almost unfit for purpose may get lost.

There is a topic @@ and I have privately messaged the OP to ask if I could hijack it and alter the title ~ they are OK with that.

So my question is would others think that’s worth a shot or rather keep it under this topic.

If it was a go I would ask a moderator to move the RTC posts to the ‘new’ topic.

Private request

I have been having some issues powering on my laptop for about a month. Every weekend, I try to turn on my laptop, and it refuses to do anything. Some mixture of removing parts like the SSD, RAM, or WiFi card seemed for a while to help, but every time, I would still need to plug in the laptop. After contacting support, they said that the RTC battery was likely dead, and to leave the laptop charging for 24 hours for the RTC battery to recharge. The battery is rated for 3V, but after charging fo…

Hi John

Rather than start a new topic I thought I may hi-jack yours and expand the discussion.

There’s an ongoing issue as to the use of a re-chargable RTC battery, so I would like to change the topic title to

RTC Viability of using rechargable battery

Wonder what you think

Response

John_Comeaux

I am fine with that.

[Moe_Wigs]

Yes, definitely move to a new thread if possible.

[amoun]

Thanks @Moe_Wigs I wait to see if that gets everyone’s support ??

[alowndar]

Ah my apologies, I did not realize this was related to general battery drain as I saw the RTC messages mixed in. I’m in favor of splitting it out to not derail the OP

[amoun]

OK I have hijacked the other topic

Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS (11th gen)

Hi I’ve had the OK from the OP to hijack this thread about the usabilty of the RTC. The simple issue is that is discharges causing stress to the user and possibly to the battery holder. There are two issues I’m not happy with a) That the charged RTC may not last a week and requires the user to workaround this problem. b) That the reasoning for using a rechargable is ‘sustainability’ etc. For perspective I have no problems so far as I use it plugged in daily, but the thought that I can’t le…

[d_p]

I also bought my Framework for intermittent use for video and audio calibration and hobbies where I may be outdoors or away from AC. I typically only use the laptop for 30 minutes at a time with several weeks between. Every single time I’ve gone to use it, it will not boot without plugging in to AC even if the internal battery is 60%+. When I get into Windows, the time is off and it won’t connect to the internet until I manually set the time (Windows 11 won’t auto sync if the time is too far off). It is infuriating and completely unusable for me.

I bought this laptop because I wanted to support what the company is trying to do but this is the behavior expected of an extremely old computer with a dead cmos battery and should not be the behavior of a brand new expensive laptop that has only seen a handful of hours of use total.

I have Lenovo and Apple MacBook, even cheap Chromebook that can go unused for months and boot up just fine without AC for a quick task.

I have been on 3.07 since 5/1 and no improvement. Is there a real fix coming?

[amoun]

@d_p

Is there a real fix coming?

Given you use, as you say, unusable, then maybe send it a support request rather than just asking on the forum.

I agree this is an appalling situation to be in

[d_p]

@amoun

Given you use, as you say, unusable, then maybe send it a support request rather than just asking on the forum.

I did. Support just replied and advised to charge for 24 hours and reset RTC - same as posted here in the forum. My support ticket as stated is that after some period without use, frame work laptop will not boot unless I plug in AC - even if there is plenty of juice in the battery. Support replying to tell me the fix is charging for 24 hours and resetting RTC is obvious that that are missing the point of the ticket entirely. I do not want to have to charge for 24 hours every time I want to use my laptop. There is 60% battery power or more in the main battery - it should boot up and just work. If I needed to be tethered to a wall, I would buy a desktop OR if I am out camping away from an outlet, I want to be able to power on my laptop for quick 10 minutes of use, I shouldn’t have to connect AC first.

[amoun]

Yes this resetting is an embarrasment. I hope there is going to be a solution.

I think there is a partial fix in the next BIOS / Firmware upadte that at least doesn’t require resetting the RTC.

[d_p]

I don’t need to reset the RTC as it is now. I have to connect AC power. I want a solution that doesn’t require me to connect AC power each time I go to use the laptop even though the main battery has plenty of remaining power (and also require manual setting of clock).

I don’t understand what the reset is supposed to solve as it doesn’t fix the issue of requiring the AC again in the next 2-3 weeks.

[amoun]

Yes this seems all down to the RTC going flat and not ‘sparking’ up the engine even with loads of fuel in the tank.

To this query, namely, this apparently dysfunctional RTC there is a dedicated topic.

Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS (11th gen)

I have been having some issues powering on my laptop for about a month. Every weekend, I try to turn on my laptop, and it refuses to do anything. Some mixture of removing parts like the SSD, RAM, or WiFi card seemed for a while to help, but every time, I would still need to plug in the laptop. After contacting support, they said that the RTC battery was likely dead, and to leave the laptop charging for 24 hours for the RTC battery to recharge. The battery is rated for 3V, but after charging fo…

[A_Fan]

Just to note, there seems to be two paths to start up the laptop once RTC battery is drained:

1. The processor is not in a bad state: Plug in USB-PD to power up.
2. The processor is left in a bad state (really low voltage?): Board reset and RTC battery pull is required.

[d_p]

Support asked me to perform several troubleshooting steps, then offered to swap my main board but then after additional prodding, admitted the issue will not go away even with a new main board. They stated “This has not been an issue for the majority of customers” which means this has been an issue for at least SOME customers. I strongly encourage everyone in this thread to open a ticket letting them know you do not agree.

Does anyone else feel like framework has been evasive in admitting this is a design flaw? It took several back and forths with support before they finally admitted that there is no hardware OR software fix planned.

[amoun]

Hi I presume you are referring to the fact that the RTC discharges so quickly that it can’t support a power on.

That
a) it requires external power to up the voltage on the RTC to enable power on and
b) in the exteme case that the RTC voltage drops very low it needs removing, replacing and the latop put on charge for 24 hours to get the RTC up and running.

I want to be sure as I have this other topic trying to clarify that it is all down to the rechargable RTC not being fit for purpose, when the latop is switched off for a week or two.

See

Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS (11th gen)

I have been having some issues powering on my laptop for about a month. Every weekend, I try to turn on my laptop, and it refuses to do anything. Some mixture of removing parts like the SSD, RAM, or WiFi card seemed for a while to help, but every time, I would still need to plug in the laptop. After contacting support, they said that the RTC battery was likely dead, and to leave the laptop charging for 24 hours for the RTC battery to recharge. The battery is rated for 3V, but after charging fo…

Thanks

[d_p]

@amoun

rechargable RTC not being fit for purpose

This is the exact issue. Is there unusually high idle drain from the main board that made framework choose this rather than a traditional multi-year design that other computer makers use? I don’t understand why they won’t admit this is a problem.

Compare to a 12 year old ThinkPad and it’s pretty embarrassing.

[amoun]

@d_p

Is there unusually high idle drain from the main board that made

Exactly. It is one of the questions I am going to ask. How come the RTC can be drained so quickly ~ it must be a flaw.

More that 2 to 3 years with a non rechargeable 2 weeks with a rechargable. Apart from tottaly inconvienient the RTC will wear out very quickly so where is the advantage?

Totaly user unfriendly.

But given how quickly they designed and made an otherwise oustanding machine I suppose something had to go wrong.

[d_p]

@amoun

an otherwise oustanding machine

I don’t want to take away from this. I wanted this to be a machine I keep for a really long time and support the framework mission of transparency and repairability. The build quality is great but my experience with CMOS and laptop clock batteries has been that it’s so rare that I have to replace them that I just can’t understand what is going on here. I’ve never had to manually set time on any tech I’ve ever owned as much as I have had to on the framework laptop. It’s just a super poor user experience so much so that I don’t even want to use the machine anymore.

The transparency… Or lack there of is the biggest concern I have given how framework started.

[amoun]

I think, here on the forum, it has all been said, how disappointing this issue unacceptable and upsetting for some users.

UK time here. Hope you can relax for a while.

[d_p]

I think most people won’t find the RTC thread by searching and instead will find this one when searching for the symptoms of the framework laptop not powering up unless it is connected to AC power. Since the discussion is continuing in the other thread, I thought we probably need to link to it again:

Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS (11th gen)

If that is really an issue then yes you are correct but isn’t that inevitable. I really don’t care about the waste only about people being upset because they feel ignored or abused. It’s not about money or material resources. Does anyone have the strength to realy care, not for me or for you but for their own integrity, because I don’t want to associate myself with people who don’t care. If the business is truely about caring then it may stutter, if it’s about money it’s already dead.