Laptop won't power on unless i plug in AC power

[Moe_Wigs]

@amoun

So I don’t see how the RTP/BIOS battery would have a chance to discharge to such a degree.

And, it shouldn’t. However, it appears that it does and requires taking the top off and removing both batteries to reset.

[amoun]

@Moe_Wigs

However, it appears that it does

So under what circumstances does it do that. I note you also say Framework are aware of an issue

@Moe_Wigs

There have been acknowledgments, but, no definitive answers

So I’d be interested in how long Framework designed the RTC/BIOS battery to survive without the laptop being plugged in.

If there is no such detail on the forum maybe a direct question to Framework would not go amiss.?

[Moe_Wigs]

@amoun

So under what circumstances does it do that. I note you also say Framework are aware of an issue

If left unplugged for several days.

@amoun

So I’d be interested in how long Framework designed the RTC/BIOS battery to survive without the laptop being plugged in.

If there is no such detail on the forum maybe a direct question to Framework would not go amiss.?

I found the post where it is acknowledged.

@nrp

The 12th Gen Mainboards do indeed come with a RTC battery to preserve the RTC clock when the main battery is disconnected or in ship mode. We’ve also improved reset circuits to prevent the RTC battery from needing to be removed to reset in the rare instances where the processor goes into a bad state with low RTC battery voltage like on 11th Gen.

[amoun]

@nrp

We’ve also improved reset circuits to prevent the RTC battery from needing to be removed to reset in the rare instances where the processor goes into a bad state with low RTC battery voltage like on 11th Gen.

Changing code to avoid removing the RTC doesn’t really help me as I wonder why and under what circumstances the RTC can get so low.

Looks like I may have to ask support

[Moe_Wigs]

It sounds as though maybe there was an issue at the design stage, draining the RTC cell quickly, otherwise, you’d have thought an ordinary non rechargeable button cell would have been used. They usually last years until you need to replace them.
There’s something wrong, I had to do the reset thing yesterday, and my main battery was 60 percent charged. It was plugged into the mains around five days ago.

[amoun]

@Moe_Wigs

There’s something wrong, I had to do the reset thing yesterday, and my main battery was 60 percent charged. It was plugged into the mains around five days ago.

Yes that sounds like a serious issue/pain. Have those exact detail been passed to Framework ??

That it can’t be charged from the main battery seems like a serious design flaw ??

In the ‘old fashioned’ desktop it was only there as a power source for the BIOS, with a laptop it’s not really necessary but useful if the main battery gets cut off.

I would have thought given the battery is present in the laptop then the RTC would only be used when the battery is dead.

It seems archaic to have an RTC on a laptop that goes flat. In fact I can see why it may be rechargable but only if it’s being charged from the on-board battery.

Now my head’s beginning to spin and wonder who’s crazy idea was it not to have it topped up by the internal battery.

The mind boggles ??

[Sando]

@amoun

Welcome to the forum
I also have a batch 8 but had to update the BIOS manually to get 3.07

Thanks. I just checked the BIOS and I have the InsydeH2O version as GFW30.03.07 which I assume means 3.07. I’ve not run a BIOS update, only the driver pack, so it seems some devices from batch 8 in February got the BIOS update in the factory just in time before dispatch.

@amoun

Wow! You only plug in less than every few weeks generally.

Whereas I don’t keep mine plugged in overnight, regularly I use it whilst plugged in.

Well I’ll plug it in occassionally to keep it between 50% and 80% but I won’t always plug it in while I’m using it. It’s definitely seen the charger quite often though, usually an hour or so every few days to keep it between 50% and 80% as mentioned above. It seems though that this is not enough to charge the RTC battery and that it must be kept charging overnight to properly charge the RTC battery or keep it charged? The whole issue just seems very unclear. The problem is that if the main battery has sufficient charge I expect the laptop to be able to start normally every time, not have to always be within reach of a power outlet just in case the RTC battery has suddenly drained without warning thus requiring AC power before the laptop will start.

@amoun

The laptop was designed not to power on the first time until plugged in. That’s in the basic instructions ??

I may have been unclear. The laptop has been working properly for 4 months or so since I got it. Just this week I encountered the problem whereby there was no response at all when pressing the power button - no lights at all and no activity from the laptop. Only when I plugged in the charger did I see the side lights as I described and the laptop powered on, clearly showing symptoms of the BIOS battery having drained (for example the clock had stopped).

[Moe_Wigs]

@amoun

Have those exact detail been passed to Framework ??

I contacted support about the issue a few hours ago. It may take a while for them to respond and it depends on how clear their explanation is. I’ll let you know what they say. I still, however, think these boards should be replaced, if the problem can’t be resolved with some kind of patch. It wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t have to strip the machine down to reset it. Having to remove the battery plug and replace it will eventually lead to failure or a broken CMOS battery holder.

[A_Fan]

@Moe_Wigs

It sounds as though maybe there was an issue at the design stage, draining the RTC cell quickly, otherwise, you’d have thought an ordinary non rechargeable button cell would have been used. They usually last years until you need to replace them.

Does that mean Framework has been aware of this battery drain issue all this time, and the rechargeable button cell was put in place as a ‘workaround’? And now that Framework ‘improved’ the reset mechanism means this drain button cell drain isn’t hasn’t be resolved?

In that case, the ‘indication’ that the issue is really fixed is when we see the board can be used with a non-rechargeable button cell battery?

[amoun]

@A_Fan

Does that mean Framework has been aware of this battery drain issue all this time, and the rechargeable button cell was put in place as a ‘workaround’?

That doesn’t make sense, although I follow the logic. I would have thought the idea was to have a more ‘sustainable’ battery but the charging mechanism is not up to it use ~ not that it should be ‘used’ much.

For example I wonder what the capacity of a ‘normal’ RTC cell is and the rechargable one.

How can such a battery be drained in a few weeks, according to anecdotal evidence. From years to weeks ???

[A_Fan]

@amoun

idea was

No one knows what they were thinking… So it was a question.

[Moe_Wigs]

Just received this from support:

“We rectified this issue in our most recent firmware update, and it should no longer be an issue if you’ve previously done so. If you haven’t already, we recommend that you upgrade the firmware. You can follow this guide: Framework Laptop BIOS and Driver Releases”

The thing is, I already had 3.07 installed, so, that doesn’t fix the issue at all. I updated to 3.08 yesterday, I’ll see how that goes. Not holding out much hope though.

[amoun]

@Moe_Wigs

We rectified this issue in our most recent firmware update, and it should no longer be an issue if you’ve previously done so

Thanks but ‘this issue’ isn’t defined as it relates to your question and how they interpreted that.

• The battery drain
• The need to remove the RTC battery
• ??

‘Most recent’ is that the 3.07 official or the 3.08 ??

[Moe_Wigs]

@amoun

Thanks but ‘this issue’ isn’t defined as it relates to your question and how they interpreted that.

The answer they gave relates to the question/issue I asked about battery drain and need for removal to reset the laptop. They didn’t go into any detail about what causes the issue exactly.

The link they gave takes you to a page with bios v 3.07 and a description that the issue of battery drain is resolved with v 3.07. v3.08 is still in beta, not officially released.

There is more here: Laptop Not Powering on With BIOS 3.07

[amoun]

@Moe_Wigs

the issue of battery drain is resolved

Well if that’s the case then I am relieved, though as I have it plugged most days I won’t force the issue, and won’t be testing

[Stephen_Manis]

Is there an official statement from @Framework as to when the 3.08 bios will be GA?

[amoun]

3 days ago

BIOS 3.09 to replace Incomplete BIOS 3.08

Our release process for BIOS updates that involve upstream security fixes is: The upstream vendor has to complete their fix and validate that it is correctly fixed. The engineering team at our manufacturing partner and our internal engineering team integrate the upstream fix with our Framework Laptop-specific BIOS. Our manufacturing partner and internal team validate the BIOS. We release to the Community for a public beta test. We release the final version publicly. Unfortunately in this case…

[Moe_Wigs]

@amoun

If you read my posts you can see I’ve had bios v3.07 installed, and it hasn’t resolved the issue.

[Jasn702]

So I pulled my laptop out of my bag and tried to turn it on to no avail.
I plugged in the power and it turned on right away, I unplugged power turned it of and tried again and it powered without the power plugged in (the battery has 71% on it). Figured that was a fluke but now it has done the same thing 2 more times in a row since then. In other words I need power every time after it has sat for a day or so.
Any thoughts?

[amoun]

Yes there’s been quite a talk about this.

By the way do you have the 3.07 BIOS update?