Long-time owners, what are your impressions on the build quality and feel?

[gavin_wallace]

inherited the fw16 from my late fathers estate had it since brand new since june 2024.
build quiality expected for a full pull apart computer nothing glued (imho best computer i ever owned, the desktop replacement killer for the form factor. gonna keep it for life if company still stays in action ).
only issues that i found so far as follows
the spacers for the trackpad config found a lil bit to moneuver to fit correctly (have trackpad far left with two spacers toward right) as have full keyboard with numpad uptop.
the hdmi expansion a little tight for cable so when removing the cable if u dont hold the expansion port down the port can rip right out even when in locked position, really dont know could be an old cable running old second monitor had for over 15years. apart from that runs flawlessly and no issues since changing from windows 11 to linux, as on windows 11 found the heat on battery would ramp and drain etc etc without seeminly doing nothing, think its a windows thing and found performance issues on windows 11 since the worldwide blue screen bug fix etc.

the fw16 primary main computer have it on a laptop stand clamshell either up or down fwd to second monitor with bluetooth 84 keys keyboard and mouse plugged in with old second monitor running linux no deidicated gpu. rarely only taken away only when troubleshooting familys network security setups etc. found it a very silent and cold computer when running linux (latest kubuntu) works flawlessly plus i rarely game on the machine.

[katchowski]

Initial Impressions

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Disclaimer: I have owned this laptop for 7 months at the time of writing so much of this is from memory
Disclaimer 2: This user is very experienced with electronics and their experience with this laptop may differ from yours due to this

I ordered the BYO kit from Framework with RAM and storage from Framework. After purchasing the order took a few days to process, and it arrived the day after it shipped. Upon receiving the package I unboxed everything and put together the laptop according to the extremely simple instructions with no issues, it took less than 30 minutes of assembly time.

Initially I had some concerns about the gap between the trackpad module and the spacers being an issue when typing, I thought that this may rub against the underside of my wrist and cause irritation. Nothing else initially stood out to me.

Now - 7 Months Later

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I still love this laptop as much as the day I bought it, it is extremely powerful given its size and portability and has done everything that I could ever want it to (it even ran VRChat without any issues, not even my old tower pc could manage that). With that being said I do still have some concerns with this laptop:

1. Tolerances - Specifically the ones that I mentioned in my initial impressions, they did not cause any issues with my wrists however I am not thrilled that, on a $3000 machine, I have to deal with ugly gaps. I know why they are there, and I would sacrifice looks for functionality I just with the team could have found a way to make the spacers and trackpad module fit together better, maybe just make a unibody trackpad module that spans the width of the full laptop.
2. The Expansion Bay - Since purchasing this laptop I have seen a lot of unofficial support and projects for this, but I have yet to hear about or see anything from Framework themselves. This is a super cool aspect of the laptop and is one of the main reasons I bought it and I hope to see more modules from Framework soon.
3. Expandability In General - This goes hand in hand with the last point, another big reason that I purchased this laptop over anything else was this video published by Framework on their Instagram, TikTok, and other socials. It got me really excited for the future of this laptop and this company, I have never before seen something that has the potential to be so versatile and expandable while not sacrificing on performance. Unfortunately I have not seen anything from Framework that comes close to what’s in this video. The repairability and customizability of this laptop alone would have been more that enough for me to buy it, but I was really hoping for more than that. I hope that sometime in the near future I can start seeing some of these things come into the Framework ecosystem.

TLDR: The Framework is a great laptop with a few minor build quality issues that don’t heavily affect the user experience (at least in my case). I think that the Framework 16 platform has a LOT of potential, and I am a bit disappointed that I haven’t seen Framework do anything with that yet, but I do hope that they continue to build and innovate using their current FW16 platform as a baseline.

Edit #1 (Jan 06, 2025): It has just come to my attention that there is now a dual M.2 Adapter for the FW16,

[James_Jarrett]

@Luca2

I hope I won’t get the whole “but it’s a modular laptop!” shtick again because the more of these issues pop up, the more I wish I had bought a ROG Zephyrus as I had originally intended to.

I hate that schtick too, libel against modularity. I genuinely believe these are design and new laptop issues (and to an extent, new/small company issues), not modular laptop issues. Apple… being a multi-trillion dollar company with a massive retail footprint isn’t nothing. My last several repair experiences with them sucked, though.

@Xavier_Jiang

While it also “shuts down from time to time”, I have narrowed it down to some form of driver problem during sleep. If I don’t sleep, I have no issues.

My work laptop also crashes pretty often when waking from sleep. I haven’t tried to get it fixed because… if they touch it, something worse will happen.

Out of computers I’ve used in the past decade or so, two Dell laptops (work, kernel panics, terrible keyboards, terrible battery, heavy, etc), two Intel MacBooks (butterfly keyboard, speakers blown out, routine kernel panics), two desktop computers (Intel self-combustion and AMD driver lock-ups), a cheap Asus Vivobook (POS), and two Frameworks, I’ve actually had the best time with the Framework machines (albeit, w/replaced mobo, touchpad, CMOS battery, and hinges on the 13; then liquid metal issues on the 16), so far. There’s got to be a fair amount of randomness in all this.

I do feel really good about my decision to be cautious about recommending Frameworks to anyone until an iteration or two are out in the world with good results on existing designs. I would not recommend a Framework 16 to anyone right now. I did get my dad to get one, but he’s had a good time with it so far, test drove mine first and didn’t mind the touchpad spacers, and I’m in driving range.

[eso]

@James_Jarrett

I do feel really good about my decision to be cautious about recommending Frameworks to anyone until an iteration or two are out in the world with good results on existing designs. I would not recommend a Framework 16 to anyone right now. I did get my dad to get one, but he’s had a good time with it so far, test drove mine first and didn’t mind the touchpad spacers, and I’m in driving range.

every time my laptop has come up, i’ve stated to the effect of, “i am extremely happy with my framework 16 so far, but…”

the finish issues don’t bother me at all, but i do understand the people for whom it is a big problem. the thermal issues do bother me, but at least that’s resolved for new units, and on track to be addressed for existing ones.

[Xavier_Jiang]

In the grand scheme of things, it seems … okay.

And for the ones that they clearly do get wrong, such as the CPU Cool Pad (which, let’s be fair, every manufacturer also had good examples of similar issues, one form or another), they are no worse than the others, if not better.

My friends’ Acer gaming laptop blew up today. Wont turn on regardless of power supply or battery. 3rd party repair shop calls it “CPU failure”

I also met another framework 16 user at my school today. Balling RGB keyboard and the GPU. And two other framework 13s.

For me, it’s a “make sure what you are getting into, but you probably won’t regret it” type. If they are able to come up with a second iteration of the 16 inch, and not bork that, it will be a recommend.

[Xavier_Jiang]

@Techie_Zeddie

that’s what they are doing

I remember someone mentioning that Framework (repair) will send you someone else’s broken (but fixed) part, rather than sending it back to factory to have it fixed, or repair it with new parts from factory.

I … think it have to do with logistics, but that’s … probably why your 4th display is probably just as bad as the first.

Which, for a 5 year old company, is … somehow pretty good?

Think like, GPD. Or One-NetBook. Support is basically nonexistent. If you don’t speak Mandarin, and are located in china, you are basically [_]ed.

[Luca2]

While this is technically true, I take an issue with justifying what basically is the warranty nor really being honoured or sub-standard QA or support behind a company being a young startup because at some point it really starts to feel like you’re doing expensive charity rather than buy a product.

Getting into a product from a young startup, sure, you know you must deal with some jank. But, you’re also paying big money for an expensive product from an American company that is still registered as a for-profit entity. Things like Zeddie’s situation are flat out unacceptable.

This is, again, not necessarily a problem that is exclusively to Framework. It does happen w lot with small startup products. Personally I think it does little to ease the remorse for affected users because you are still as out of your 2-3 grand as you were before hearing that, and you still have no solution. It can be understandable that some people reach the conclusion that they don’t want to do expensive 2-3k charity and just get something else. I have a friend of mine who got rug pulled hard during the FxTech fiasco and, while he needs a new laptop, he categorically refuses to get a Framework exactly for this reason - he never wants to be stuck with a lemon and essentially told “eh, suck it up, it’s a startup” again

This is basically the same issue I take with Support and even sime users justifying obvious production defects and bad tolerances behind “Eh, yeah, it’s modular, what do you want to do with it”. What it did for me, at least emotionally, was basically confirm the doubt that other part of me was having that it will be just another Fairphone, modular technology isn’t ready yet, and it’s either that or a reliable product. Whenever I browse Hacker News and I hear of a cool new modular product like that new modular Linux phone that just launched my instinctive reaction is now like “I could get rug pulled… or I could get a Pixel. Yeah pass.” I don’t think it completely unsold me the idea of fully modular tech, but if made me reach the conclusion that it’s right around the corner but not quite here yet. We have working proof of concepts, but narrowing down the tolerances and the quality control for such a high amount of moving parts is still an open problem. Opting out of glue and solder really does expose you to many more technical challenges.

I understand it’s also a very fine line here, because yeah, most people are in absolutely good faith and are trying to find a rational explanation. The real issue is where you take that explanation which is valid for some things and extend that as a catch-all excuse - that begins to also tarnish the idea of modular products in general.

[Techie_Zeddie]

I didn’t know about FxTec and read into it a bit - so basically a smartphone that allowed for either Android or Linux OSes on it.

My experience previous to Framework was with System76. They are also a small company, but support was responsive. Unfortunately, it doesn’t solve the hardware/software jank.

I should have learned from that before I jumped onto Framework - but there was so much more coverage of Framework at the time as well, and it seems mostly good. Of course the FW16 was new, so…

I probably shouldn’t have jumped on the 16, and probably went for the 13. Or let FW bake a bit longer and went with a different laptop from a brand that’s been around (HP or Lenovo was what I was eying).

[Luca2]

@Techie_Zeddie

(HP or Lenovo was what I was eying).

I definitely get that, though it’s fair to mention that I went to Framework after returning a ThinkPad P16s. The P16s came with a severely bent display panel that I have no clue how it made it past QC, had a horrendous touchpad (as a feature sadly), but the real problem was the constant crashes and abysmal Wi-Fi performance with no way of changing the Wi-Fi card which was soldered down.

Yeah all in all, my Framework 16 beat the P16s in everything except build quality, where it of course loses badly to the ThinkPad (if you don’t consider the bent lid). The quest for the perfec laptop is not quite easy.

I did meet my friend who had had an unlucky run with his fw16 (DOA unit, no response after 3 weeks, returned at the last minute) and he’s now rocking a Legion 5 Pro. It’s somehow smaller than the iGPU only 16 while having a RTX 4070 in it, decent Linux support after installing a community package from GitHub and disabling Secure Boot, and, most importantly, it cost much less. So it depends. He candidly said he did not regret for a minute sending his FW16 back, seeing all the issues that have happened on it.

So yes, the first-generation product is, indeed, a first-generation product. We shall see.

[Techie_Zeddie]

No SSD expansion card or SD card reader. I would say use a black picture or video in full screen, and anywhere between 50-100% brightness - the higher the brightness, the easier it is to see the blemish (of course), but I can see it all the way down to around 30%.

[OperationCWAL]

I just don’t understand this. I played a black screen video on full screen, brightness at 100%, and I saw not even a hint of unevenness. It was mid-day in a room lit by an overcast sky, but it’s so obvious in your examples that I feel like I should have seen something. I have to try again because either I won the display panel lottery, or they are really failing you here.

Doesn’t seem like it’s possible that it could be some other component like a bad signal before it even gets to the panel or something, because I feel like that would not form this kind of pattern. Can the magnets of the bezel have anything to do with it, or am I stuck in 1999?

Edit: Ok, in a darker room I see it a little bit, but not to a degree I’d even consciously notice. I will say though that it does appear to be pressure-sensitive. If I press on edges of the bezel, I get more of that lightening effect (at full brightness). Is it possible something in your lid or bezel is not lining up right and pinching those areas? Have you tried looking at the screen with the bezel off? Are those spots near screws, and could the screws possibly overtightened or misaligned?

[Techie_Zeddie]

Thank you for checking it out on yours. Yours sounds exactly like my 2nd display - I’d consider that a good display. I want that display experience back!

So I know it’s possible. Some comments on the YT video are gaslighting me by saying that’s normal, or that nothing is perfect, that I should just accept it, etc. That’s BS. I don’t think they will say that if they actually see it in person (or actually paid for it themselves).

[James_Jarrett]

@Techie_Zeddie

So I know it’s possible. Some comments on the YT video are gaslighting me by saying that’s normal, or that nothing is perfect, that I should just accept it, etc. That’s BS. I don’t think they will say that if they actually see it in person (or actually paid for it themselves).

I wouldn’t worry about them too much. It’s really hard to tell from a YouTube video / through a camera how severe the problem is or isn’t, and there’s a lot of children around.

My display has a similar couple “pinched” spots, especially at the top. On a black background I can see them at any brightness 10% or higher, if I look for them, but I hadn’t noticed them until I went looking. I guess I don’t view very dark images on this screen very often, and when I do, I’ve usually got the backlight set low. It could be a very common defect with these screens if QC doesn’t specifically check for the issue or isn’t strict about it. Yours must be worse than mine.

@Luca2

Whenever I browse Hacker News and I hear of a cool new modular product like that new modular Linux phone that just launched my instinctive reaction is now like “I could get rug pulled… or I could get a Pixel. Yeah pass.”

Smart, but please don’t stop with modular stuff. Really do have a strong skepticism of all new products, and all design revisions on existing products.

When you think about it, the majority of the Framework issues don’t have anything to do with modularity. This screen issue is a good example. At least in my experience, the modularity has helped much more than it’s hurt. The FW16 input components might be a good exception though. It’s an ambituous, ballsy design to shape your laptop like a deep dish pizza with human interface elements as the tomatos, just kinda floating on top there. In my case, the aluminum spacer was a QC failure, sure, but a failure on one of 7 separate components that could have been one assembly, so blaming modularity makes sense there.

But generally, even with major established brands… For the longest time among Apple fans, the common advice was, “Never buy the first version of a new design”. Everybody expected that Apple would stand behind their products, but nobody wanted to get stuck with hardware compromises, and everybody always assumed Apple would screw up something.

(edit) I guess we can blame modularity for the backlight unevenness too. I was surprised when I removed the bezel from my laptop that the backlight stopped being pinched at the top. Where it’s a tad bit uneven on the sides, there’s a very big effect to me applying very slight pressure with my fingers to the edge. So it seems like it’s all about how the screen’s mounted. Mine looks fine though. I don’t have any complaints myself.

[Xavier_Jiang]

Comparing the chassis rigidity of the 16 to a Thinkbook 15 Gen 1, the Framework somehow come out superior.

It’s … imperfect. If you disregard the price and look at the laptop, it managed to not be terrible at anything. This even applies to stuff like firmware. The good news, perhaps, is Framework isn’t pretending it’s perfect.

[Luca2]

I mean, depends what you compare it against. Comparing it against a budget laptop… maybe. But the chassis rigidity on my Framework 16 is atrocious. I type, I feel the device bend beneath my hands and I see the screen wobble. My company DELL XPS doesn’t do it. Heck, even my previous €500 Dell Inspiron feels more solid.

At least in my unit I wouldn’t say it’s not terrible at anything, I would say the structural integrity is garbage, and I don’t have any softer way to put it