Long-time owners, what are your impressions on the build quality and feel?

[MayOrMayNotBeACat]

From all the responses, the only bullets I’ve not managed to dodge are the liquid metal cooling problem and the gap problem, and the first version is currently minor. Everything else is good enough that I can just replace the problems as they come up.

Although then again, my last laptop was a Macbook Pro 2016, so anything is a massive improvement.

EDIT: @Techie_Zeddie I am so sorry that your Framework 16 had JAIDS.

EDIT 2: Probably should explain what JAIDS is.

Jade Star is an obscure Let’s Player whose computer used to constantly crap out in the middle of his Let’s Plays. Attempts to fix the problems would inevitably result in new problems cropping up, sometimes in the components he just put in, leading to jokes that his computer was diseased (hence, JAIDS). His computer issues were only ironed once he built an entirely new PC, using none of the components from his old one.

From Techie_Zeddie, we sadly learn that JAIDS can apply to any product that is fully repairable.

[Obasav]

My desktop computer had JAIDS… until I changed the memory for ECC ram

[Subatomic6895]

Got my FW16 in batch 12 (May 2024) and been daily driving it for school/uni since.
Having had it long enough at this point the main things I wish could’ve been done different are

• the display frame: there’s wayyyy too much flex in it to be able to safely put the fw16 in my bag and not worry about it getting squished up against the keyboard, scratching off the display coating (I have no clue if Framework would even accept a warranty request for that since that could be easily taken as CID)
• trackpad spacers as everyone else has said (my solution to this is arm warmers)
• the trackpad itself randomly disconnects and is super annoying when I’m typing and suddenly it disconnects and I have no clue what happened

Those have to be my biggest gripes by far, everything else is pretty unnoticeable. Positive sides are mostly internal, ie the battery life is super long and I love it. Keyboard is pretty nice to type on, I prefer it to my desktop sometimes depending on how I’m feeling that day

[Asad1]

While I am still a fan of the vision, company and my FW16, I have only used it about a dozen times since I got it almost a year ago, because the trackpad spacer gap bothers me both physically and visually. The LCD panel is also not completely flat, so when I close it there is a gap in the middle between LCD and the trackpad base.

Other than these issues, I haven’t noticed much to complain about in terms of build quality. Seems solid enough for something which is modular and repairable.

[Techie_Zeddie]

Thanks all. I’m still waiting on FW to respond. They offered the refund, but haven’t sent me any details on how to obtain it yet. I asked about the accessories that I bought with the laptop (they had me remove the blank expansion slot, and the 6 expansion bay cards, etc). I still have those and the numpad. Like I said, it takes about 5 days for a response (Last I sent them was Feb 11 - about 4 days now, so I might get a response later today or Mon).

The only thing I bought not from Framework is the SSDs and memory.

I was thinking I’d go with a FW13 after I get my refund, but will see what they have to announce on Feb 25 (2nd gen announcement).

I think the FW16 still needs some time to bake. Maybe when it’s their time to get a 2nd gen things will have better QC.

EDIT: Just got a response - but more questions I had to answer - so it’ll be another 5 days before another response. It’s great that they offer the refund, but… when?

This 5 day between response is bad when they keep coming back to ask something else. I wish they would have 1 single email with all the questiosn they need so they can start the process already. This is why this ticket has been open since August 2024 and still hasn’t been resolved. It’s mostly the slow turnaround time on email response (again, on average 5 days). It’s like waiting for snail mail.

[Techie_Zeddie]

They are losing my respect. So, just as I thought - 5 days after I get a response, but no real actionable email. This email misunderstood my request for the refund and my question about what to do with the accessories, and 5 days later (that’s today), they came back with “since you’re keeping the accesorries, I can go ahead and process the refund”

Wait… WHAT? No. I asked what do I do with the accessories? Are you sending a return label or what?

And now 5 more days of waiting? I’ve been patient enough. AUGUST 14, 2024 is when the ticket was opened. It’s been now OVER SIX MONTHS.

Why does dealing with FW support feel like talking to a lawyer? They seem to drag on and you can FEEL they are doing this on purpose because they are being paid by the hour. Only this time, I don’t know what their reason is. Keep the money for as long as possible to build as much interest while it’s in their bank account?

I know they’re busy, and I’ve been giving them plenty of room. But when it feels like they’re doing this on purpose. Multiple asks for photos and videos - each time asking 5 days apart, meaning it takes 2-3 weeks before they make a decision on something. And now that it’s about a refund, multiple questions and (purposefully? mistakenly? doesn’t matter now) and back-and-forth about a refund and refund on the accessories… this is INSANE.

I was giving them so much room, so much patience.

Should we do a pool on if Framework will fully refund me by Feb 25 (their 2nd gen event)? This includes sending me the return label for the accessories and me finally getting the FULL refund on my credit card. Hint: 6 days left. It will take them 5 days to respond BUT I doubt it will be resolevd with just one more response.

1. Clarify their misunderstanding.
2. Need to know if they will send me the return label.
3. The length of time to send them the accessories.
4. The process of the refund.

FYI, the email chain is so long, Gmail now has a hard time rendering the email.

I’m stressed. I’m tired. I’m very tired.

I no longer want to tip toe with “I mean no hate” and “I love the idea” and trying to be careful with my words. The idea means nothing if execution is so flawed it makes your hair fall out. It’s not only the device itself, or the build quality, or the support. It’s the million paper cuts.

Framework has a long way before I will EVER reconsider them. Have they been rude? No, quite the opposite. You don’t need to be rude to be frustrating. And that’s pretty much it. It’s a frustrating experience. Mostly support response time just feels like dragging on and on.

This can probably be resolved quicker if you either A) respond to emails quicker or B) pick up the phone. Maybe not for EVERY customer, but for those who you can see the ticket’s been open for 6 months. Do you guys NOT have an SLA policy? I work as a Sys Admin, and we have an SLA policy.

After a certain amount of time, we reclassify the ticket with a higher priority. And if time keeps ticking on without a resolution, we have to move the priority higher. Once it gets critical, the ticket owner HAS to start making real-time contact with the person (at this point it becomes a 1 on 1 until it’s done).

I apologize if this is unhinged (it’s because it is). 6 months, my friends. 6 months…and counting. 5 days per response (even if the question is a quick one). I think I’m entitled to a meltdown post.

Imagine this conversation:
What do you want?
A taco.
What do you want in your taco?
Beef.
Anything else?
Lettuce, cheese, tomatoes, scratch the beef, make it steak.
Okay, steak, lettuce, cheese, tomatoes, beef. Anything else?
No not beef. Just the steak.
Okay, just steak only. We’ll send it out soon.
Wait, no, not just steak. Steak, lettuce, cheese, tomatoes. And what about payment?
We’ll put the order in and get back to you.
Any updates? Did you get all that (steak, lettuce, cheese, tomates)? And also how much, and how do I pay?
Hello?

Now…If it’s already a frustrating read in one sitting, add to that each line is 5 days apart, so the frustration grows and subsides when you forget about it in the next couple days, then grows again when you receive a response that doesn’t move the needle forward. What is that, 13 back-and-forth in what is a 10 second read? Well, that’s actually over the course of 65 days (2+ months). THAT is what I am dealing with.

This is why and where I am right now.

One more way to look a this: we had a change in presidential administration between the time the ticket was opened and now (and the ticket is still not resolved). In this time, we had the campaign, a debate (that was in Sept), an election (Nov 5), a certification (Jan 6), an inauguration (Jan 20), and we are now 44 days into a new presidency. Our current president has made more changes (not saying good or bad - I have my thoughts - which adds to the stress) in those 44 days (45 days now that I’ve edited this post to add more) than this ticket has moved in a 6 months.

Thank you for reading this.

[Second_Coming]

@Techie_Zeddie

I think I’m entitled to a meltdown post.

You’re handling it a LOT better than I could ever do if I were in the same situation.

Surely there’s a consumer protection law thingy that states a refund can’t be dragged on beyond a certain period.

For whatever reason in the cosmos, you’re hitting barrier after barrier near every step on your Framework journey. It’s really odd, like this is a poor experience to the nth degree.

[Techie_Zeddie]

I’m hoping I’m the outlier here. But the experience with long support response times seem to be universal. For a simple issue that can get resolved after a part replacement, it may take 3-4 weeks - may not be all that bad. But if every part was bad, leading to a RMA return repair (which takes a lot of communication), the timeline gets STRETCHED at the rate of 5 days per response.

And Framework makes no exception to the 5 day response time even for cases that have been streched this long. LIke I said, they need to implement an SLA policy. My department would be reprimanded if we did the same thing. We have set # of days a ticket can be open. Sure it can pass those days BUT we better have a damn good reason for it. It’s not a hard set rule. It’s just set that way so that we don’t have pissed off people. People like me right now with Framework. 6 MONTHS dude… and for simple back and forth responses. It’s not like “oh, I’ve been doing something these past 5 days”.

In my company, if it really does take a long time to respond, we have to keep people updated. “Hey, we’re waiting on this, sorry for the wait”. Day 2 “Still waiting”. Day 3 “Okay, we need your input - do you want A or B?” Day 3 (later) “Got it, confirmed. ETA 2 days”. Day 5 “Got it and working on the issue, ETA 3 days”. Day 8 “We ran into another issue, appologies. We’re still working on it”.

We cannot have radio silence for long stretches of time. If it’s something like Day 1 “Do you want A or B”? and the user answered on the same day, then ask for an update on Day 3 because they haven’t heard anything, and someone finally responds on Day 5 - we’re fucked. That user may have gone to their manager, their manager would have a word with OUR maanager, and OUR manager will go to the tech assigned and ask if we can respond, and why we didn’t respond earlier.

If it gets severe enough (ticket goes beyond 30 days), we just call and do a Zoom conference witht he user and fix it in real time right there with them. Ask the back and forth questions via a call and not email or the ticket system.

Framework needs something like this. A well defined SLA policy so things like a ticket do not stay open for 6 months.

Again, for a long time, I tried to be patient - “it’s a small company, small support group, etc”. The thing is, a find that a small support group is actually a worse excuse when it comes to long open tickets. As a smaller group, there is less buracracy and the people are more aware of the outstanding tickets that need to be addressed. Now if they have A LOT of these tickets like mine, then it’s a failure in their process and procedures. They need to seriously sit down and come up with a better system. How to streamline, do they need more people, do they need a better CRM system, etc.

[Techie_Zeddie]

Wow, maybe someone there is reading this finally - got a response today listing all the parts they want back. Finally, an actionable email (list of parts and part numbers they expect back). Good, that’s what I was hoping for.

However, they said there was a display kit that they didn’t receive back. sigh - already frustrated and have hundreds of emails to go through, I had to now find the RMA number and the associated FedEx label I used - turns out it was sent back on December 6, so I sent that info back to them.

I am currently looking for packing materials and box. I don’t have a printer at home so I will have to wait until I get back to the office to print the label for these accessories to send back.

Hopefully the end is coming soon.

I still have dbrand skins, SSDs, memory, and the Intel AX200 and Broadcom WIFI7 cards I bought for this laptop that I have no idea what to do with now. I can always repurpose the parts (not sure for what, and maybe by the time I get another laptop, new faster SSDs, memory, and better compatible WIFI cards will be available by then. Also I have 4 expansion cards (the refurbished kit) I bought just to have - but now I don’t any FW laptop.

Might get a factory refurb AMD 13 inch… who knows. Maybe less issues? Of course, I don’t want to deal with support if anything wrong happens - wasted money on these things.

The items I have left are of relatively low value so reselling wouldn’t really be worth the trouble.

I have to pay attention to the amount I receive back compared to the original invoice, as well to make sure they aren’t pulling anything.

I have a headache.

Just as a reminder to myself:
$2,240.85

[OperationCWAL]

Man, this is really disappointing. To me, it’s exponentially worse to have bad customer service than simply a bad product. Like, even rampant mistakes in quality can be forgiven if you’re able to at least make customers whole in some way or another. But even if you have stellar quality and reliability, if you deliver me your one defect of the month and give me an experience HALF as bad as what @Techie_Zeddie has endured simply to get what I paid for, we’re done. I have very little patience for losing money, and therefore customer service is everything to me.

I really feel lucky to be typing on a perfectly fine unit that only occasionally attempts to murder me if I position my wrists wrong. The fact that your experience went so wrong for so long (in fact only seemed to get worse) makes me pretty hesitant to take another gamble, say on a new laptop for my wife. I really hope they’ll be announcing “gen 2” of their customer service.

[Techie_Zeddie]

Which laptop do you currently have?

Yeah, I think I would be subjecting myself to torture if I get back in the pool, but I like the idea - but you’re right - even if I get lucky with a Framework 13, we are relying on Framework for support for FUTURE upgrades. If something goes wrong in the FUTURE, are we subjected to 5 day turnaround time on email responses again?

I may wait a year or two and will ask on the forums and Reddit to see what people’s support experiences is like for those who opened a ticket int he last month.

[OperationCWAL]

I have a 16. I do actually love it, really no complaints other than the spacers. I feel like I’m in the clear as far as likelihood of needing support, though I suppose maybe the fans can fail or the battery can die prematurely. I know your story is just one data point and overall customer service experiences probably trend positive, but the prospect of being the unlucky one who has to wait days to get a response from a different person every time who isn’t aware of the history or isn’t even reading or comprehending my latest clear communication just makes me want to run and hide.

I’m really hopeful that these are just growing pains and they’ll soon be able to put much more resources into support (hopefully before I need them!), but it would be nice to have some sort of evidence to that effect. Maybe it’s out there somewhere, but I haven’t seen any comments acknowledging room for improvement in support that I can recall…

[Techie_Zeddie]

For a one-and-done issue (when I had the display issue the first time around), it wasn’t that bad.

It still took forever because of the multiple back-and-forth asking for photos, videos, more photos, more chatting - before finally sending a replacement display kit with return label. Yes, it took a while and frustrating, but 3-4 weeks (while it’s a long time for just a display replacement compared to other companies), I was at least happy it was fixed. That was a long time ago btw, not part of the August 2024 ticket (when I first took delivery of the laptop).

I waited until August because they were very busy with finishing up their pre-order batches before and I wanted to wait until they were outside of their crunch. This Aug ticket was more about the alignment issues and touchpad issues. It was Framework that caused another issue (scratched the GOOD display) and I was never able to get another GOOD display since (each one afterwards had bad light bleed).

They asked for the laptop back and I was hoping that with the full laptop there, it’d be easier for them to try different displays, bezels, and lid combo that would fit better together without causing the bad light bleed . That’s when they said “that’s normal” and offered a refund.

Don’t get me wrong - I appreciate that they finally offered a full refund. Before, they said it was outside of the return period (it was, but the issues were there day 1). My fault for giving them the benefit of the doubt (again, I didn’t want to add more to their plate with all those pre-order batches they had to fulfill).

In fact, it’s that good will is the reason why my take on Framework was still warm. It wasn’t until these things happened that that warmth got cold:

1. Blamed me for the scratch on the display (they rescinded after I had pics to prove them wrong).
2. The long back-and-forth emails (5 days apart). - This is the BIGGEST reason my outlook on Framework deteriorated. It should have been #1, so you can see it takes a lot to get me to this “meltdown” point.
3. Did not read that I wanted to return the other parts to a FULL refund (and not just the base unit) - like why do I need all this stuff without the laptop itself? This goes back to #2 - more delay just to correct this misunderstanding.
4. I cannot stress this enough - the BIGGEST issue again is #2 - the long back-and-forth emails (5 days apart).

Simple things to make me love Framework:

1. Tighter tolerances, QA, and QC - the FW16 is modular so it’s even more important for this SKU.
2. Streamline support - less back-and-forth. If required, CALL so back-and-forth do not happen over email. Or tighten up email response turnaround times.
3. Implement SLA policies. Example: tickets that’s been open for 14 days, be more responsive on EMAIL, anything over 27 days (3 weeks) assign a dedicated case manager to address the customer directly. 4 weeks, and the dedicated case manager should be CALLING or texting the customer instead.

Yes, it takes resources - but if you find your case manager(s) overwhelmed, it means your first level support is not up to snuff and needs to be improved. The 3 Ps: People, Process, and Product. Right now PROCESS is what needs to be looked at, which may require the right PEOPLE. As for the QA/QC, that’s fixing the PRODUCT.

The PRODUCT is decent (FW13), but the 16 needs more work. The PEOPLE are friendly and for the cause. It’s the support/RMA PROCESS that needs to be improved the most, especially if the PRODUCT fail to meet expectations.

[Arazil]

End of Warranty Update:

My system has not changed much (for better or worse) since my original December 2024 review. I am still waiting on the iPhone/USB compatibility issues to get repaired even though they just launched an entirely new AMD based chipset for the Framework 13 (with no mention of the issue getting fixed). In addition, I am still waiting for word on when the PTM repair kit will ship and what the warranty impacts will be. As it stands, I will no longer be covered by the original warranty when it arrives and I am anxious about performing such a complex repair to fix a manufacturing defect without some form of manufacturer support being available.

As much as it pains me to admit, this will likely be my last Framework product until they are able to revamp their firmware and support processes. As it stands, I have received a lot of empty promises to fix my ongoing issues with the product and little else. Even the first keyboard field repair kit consisting of several custom foam blocks with VHB tape took around 9 months to deliver (issue discovered in late 2024-01, issue fixed in 2024-05, repair kit requested around 2024-08-27, and repair kit shipped on 2024-09-18).

[Techie_Zeddie]

Update: There are no updates, really. They received the rest of the accessories on 2/26. It is now 3/7.

No updates. I sent them an email a couple days after it showed delivered, received a response a couple days later saying they’re busy, please wait.

And to now, still waiting for an email or a refund to hit my CC.

[Techie_Zeddie]

The bottom chassis is indeed sturdy, and surprisingly so for something that’s modular. I don’t even have an issue with the keyboard area. The trackpad and wrist area is where things fall apart - feels rickety and can slide a bit back and forth even with things are locked into place. That’s not even mentioning the gaps.

Then there is the display/bezel/lid area, which causes pinching on the screen (and the light bleed that comes with that). A few cardboard pieces help with that, though. What doesn’t help is the display itself is bad - even laying flat not installed on the lid, the bright light bleed on the corners is unbearable - and is noticeable even in a well lit room all the way down to around 30%. In the dark, it’s visible all the way at the lowest brightness setting.

As I demoed in the video, I had to actually PULL the corner FORWARDS (bending it) to get rid of the bright spots, which tells me this is bad QC. Maybe something happened during the curing of the glue.

If I was just judging by the bottom chassis, I would be impressed indeed. Unfortunately you have to take the entire laptop experience as a whole - display, lid, bottom chassis, wrist/trackpad area, keyboard - everything.

[Techie_Zeddie]

Another 5 days - Got a response to confirm they received the accessories, but now said I’m missing the USB-C cable, the AC cable, and a HDMI card. sigh

FYI, I sent back everything they listed (they gave me a list of items and their part numbers). I made sure I found everything that matched the part numbers and quantity. I bought other accessories from them and else where (ebay etc), so I don’t remember what goes with the original order so I rely on their parts number list to what I need to send back.

At this point, they can be lying and ask for parts I bought afterwards and not credit me that (only as part of the original purchase) and I wouldn’t know.

Although I am skeptical of their requests only because at one point they said they didn’t receive a display kit which I absolutely sent back. They once claimed I scratched the display (see my previous posts), and it was only due to the photos they had me take before I sent it back proved to them it wasn’t scratched before I sent it in, so it was scratched on their end, not mine.

I have to audit my purchaes and my inventory to make sure I am not sending them something I purchased that was not included with the original order now. This is RIDICULOUS. I feel like I’m fighting uphill with support, repair, and now a refund.

I am going from “cool concept, not fully baked” to “slow support” to now “possibly malicious support/refund process”.

They have my laptop now and as far as I know, all the accessories that came with the laptop when I purchased. I feel like I’m facing with a partial refund now despite everything (unless I give up stuff that I ordered outside of the original order - which also has cost associated with it - the original price I paid for them). I wonder if they will ask me for the dbrand skin I purchased for the FW16 too.

These were things I was hoping to keep around if I purchase another FW16 in the future OR just sell them. It sucks I already paid for them, but to have to give them to Framework as well?

This… is starting to feel like… extortion.

I sent them the list they gave me and it didn’t list the things they said I didn’t include. Asked for part numbers and for shipping label. But this also means another wait for response, more time for shipping, more time once it arrives (it took 2 weeks or so for them to confirm after it shows delivered + delivery time).

The goal post keeps moving. Will I now get my refund before tax day (April 15)?

[Techie_Zeddie]

After sending them the list of items they asked me to send (and confirming that’s exactly what I sent), they finally approved the refund! I should see it in 5-10 days.

I’m sorry for the multiple posts. Seems people have lost interest. That’s okay. It’s been a crazy experience with Framework.

When I am ready to purchase a new laptop, I will be asking about customer’s experience with support to see if they improved on response times before jumping back in. Also will be asking if FW16 alignment issues got better.

Otherwise, may be eying the FW13 instead. But this will be a couple years down the line.

[lbkNhubert]

I am glad to hear that you finally have achieved resolution and sorely disappointed in how things have gone for you. You deserved better.

[Luca2]

Happy this has come to an end. For what it’s worth, I had stopped pursuing a fixed unit after my previous rejection and this story inspired me to try again. I have opened a new ticket for the chassis bend and screen wobbling issues which have been driving me up the wall and others — now I am at the phase where I have to disassemble and send some pictures, but it seems like they have recognized the issue.

In my case I don’t want a refund, I want a new unit, but you get the idea.

Fingers crossed!