LTT Secret Shopping Framework Discussion Thread

General Topics
45

Wow, this is not suspicious at all. After having NO emails whatsoever for four weeks, and now having sent two irate emails in the past two days, they suddenly magically have completed “thorough” diagnostics and repairs.

Our repair center has performed thorough diagnostics and repairs, and based on their findings, we believe a replacement is the best course of action to ensure optimal performance.

It could certainly be a coincidence, but I have my doubts as you can imagine. And regardless, the complete and utter lack of any substantial communication from Aug 15 when I mailed it to them until today on Oct 10, eight weeks later, is still totally unacceptable.

Hopefully my case is resolved shortly.

And hopefully someone at Framework with the power and knowledge to enact positive change ensures this never happens to anyone else ever again.

1 Like
46

The good news is that you’re getting a new laptop, the bad news is that your warranty was reduced from 12 months to almost 9 months as it won’t be extended.

With a bit of luck you’ll have the new laptop in a couple of weeks :slightly_smiling_face:

Didn’t you just tell them in one of the emails that you want to send the new mainboard back? I mean, you’re actually willing to send the part so they could inspect it.

47

I did. A couple times. I told them again a few days ago and they finally acknowledged it and said that was fine, if that’s what I want to do. But, if I’d just be willing to perform a test with Cinebench R23 and get screenshots of the results and temps, they could determine what’s the best next step. It’s like they reset and don’t realize we already went through all of that before. But whatever. I did the tests again this morning, took more screenshots, and I’m going to send them.

2 Likes
48

I’ll try to write about my current experience with the support team.
Sorry for the long text.

14 Jul

Everything started on Sun, 14 Jul at 10:50 when I decided to open a ticket because the paint was slowly disappearing from one of the corners.

While discussing this with the support team they asked me if there were any other issues, so, I said that the laptop runs a bit too hot.

We started checking the thermal issue on the 16th of July, and after 7 long days of testing and recording my screen, it was decided that I needed to send the laptop to the repair centre.

23th July

On the 23rd I asked a few questions:

  • how long it will take
  • do I get extra warranty days
  • do I need to leave my RAM and SSD in
  • do I need to send it with the keyboard and expansion cards

29th July

After 6 days they finally replied with:

  • 5 days after the laptop is received
  • nope
  • YES
  • YES

After checking the answers I decided to remove all the data from my system SSD and replace it with Fedora, as I couldn’t send a laptop with private data on it.

So I did that, and replied with “Ready for collection”

31 July

This is where it gets a bit odd and, not so funny.

I was told that I need to:

  • remove expansion cards
  • remove SSD ( After I replaced my system with Fedora :man_facepalming: )
  • remove RAM

3 Aug

I couldn’t understand why I didn’t have a label yet. I mean, it was already agreed that I’d send my laptop back.
After sending an email and asking where’s my label, I received it the same day.

6 Aug

My laptop was received by the repair centre.

9 Aug

A second not-so-funny moment. I was told that in fact, it takes 10 days or more to have it repaired. So, why was I told that it could take up to 5 days before? I have no idea.

16 Aug

Got the confirmation that my laptop was repaired and on the way back.

This is where I got a bit annoyed as nobody provided a tracking code with this confirmation, so, I had no idea when it would be delivered.
Luckily, I have an account with most of the delivery companies, so they added this to my account.

17 Aug

I received the laptop with the wrong mainboard! YEY! Lucky me.
It was also full of dust and with some scratches on a part that they had to replace. Double yey!

20 - 21 Aug, round 2

It was decided that I’d get a new laptop.

Round 3.
5 Sept 2024

The new laptop was as bad as the first one regarding the CPU temperature

So far, the only bit that was fixed was the part that was having some issues with the paint.

11 Sept

It was decided that I needed to replace the mainboard

A few days later…

I received the mainboard just to realise that is as bad as the other ones.

Replaced the Liquid Metal with some PTM7950 as I couldn’t go through another round with the support team, and now I have a happy laptop.

The good:

  • It feels like they want you to have a working product
  • If something is wrong and you can prove it ( good luck with that ), they’ll replace the part
  • They’re doing their best to help you out

The bad

  • The support team needs to find a way to discuss between them and not ask the same questions whenever someone new takes over
  • It feels like you need to write a design document detailing what you tried, why it doesn’t work and, 1000 more things that you could find about that issue
  • The repair centre is the worst place a laptop could land
  • If you need to use the repair centre, don’t, see if you can repair it yourself
  • Framework should try and not make the same mistake they did with the bios battery on the intel laptops. They should learn from that and look into the thermal issues

Unfortunately, after this experience, I can’t recommend this laptop to anyone who needs a laptop as a daily runner or, as a business.

So far, I feel like you need to have two identical framework laptops… mainly because you need one to keep debugging with the support team and the other one to do your job.

Lucky for me, I have more than one spare laptop.

Sorry again for the long long text :sweat_smile:

Overall I like the laptop :slightly_smiling_face:, but, it has some issues.

6 Likes
49

Similar to @Alex_Uta above, I would probably no longer recommend the FW 16 to anyone who doesn’t like to tinker, or to anyone who needs the laptop for critical work as their only machine.

I originally planned for the FW 16 to be a replacement for a “desktop” computer. I was going to use it for some light gaming, but mostly as a video and photo editing machine, and for running some other creative programs. Unfortunately, I had a project that needed done while I was waiting around for FW support, so I ended up hastily building myself a cheap-ish, small form factor, desktop editing rig. I was able to get my project done on time with that, while my FW 16 sat, wating on the next reply from FW support. Technically, I could have kept using it. Other than max fan noise and potentially reduced performance, it did work. But FW support kept asking for more tests and such, and I just didn’t want to be in the middle of important projects while also going back and forth with different mainboards for testing.

Don’t get me wrong. Any computer can fail. I don’t know that you are necessarily any less likely to have a problem with a Dell/Lenovo/HP/etc. But when a problem with the machine may result in a month or more of back and forth emails with support, that’s a tough ask for a machine you need for work, or whatever.

4 Likes
50

I think that the big “takeaway” for the Framework support team is this: Customers should be getting a premium support experience for their premium priced laptop.

Slightly longer version: Framework should not be outsourcing basic repair duties to customers unless the customer explicitly requests that level of service. Furthermore, RMAs should be traceable 24x7 via the support website with any RMA milestone notices getting pushed directly to the customer via their preferred method. Framework will be greatly limiting their customer base if they keep going down this road of assuming that everyone that purchases their product has a basic competence in electronics repair.

7 Likes
51

To be fair, I purchased a DIY laptop and I’m more than happy to troubleshoot and repair it myself. But it does get frustrating being asked every question two or three times by different people; being asked for the same pictures multiple times by different people, and being asked to perform the same tests multiple times by different people.

2 Likes
52

Jeez louise. The saga continues. A week after them saying they’ll send a replacement laptop, and I get this:

The replacement laptop is still undergoing additional testing to ensure it is fully functional before it is returned to you. Please rest assured that we will notify you once we receive an update from our repair center partner.

Ridiculous.

53

That’s… strange tbh :slightly_frowning_face:

Are you going to receive a new one from the factory, or, a used one?

What tests do they need to run on a new laptop? :person_shrugging:

54

Precisely. Very strange. I think this must mean I’m getting someone else’s laptop which has/had a different set of issues. I am not looking forward to conducting my own thorough diagnostic after receiving it, and potentially finding a different issue.

55

Sounds to me it’s a “Please wait a moment while we stitch up your system.” kind of situation.

To be fair though, even with Lenovo or Dell, if they send you a replacement laptop, it’s at their discretion whether you’d get a factory fresh laptop, or a re-certified / refurbished unit…because you’re now in the warranty period. With that said, if your issue started within the return period (I don’t know when your unit started exhibiting issues), and you sent the unit in for 6-8 weeks for repair…then it’s, IMO, ‘reasonable’ to ask for a factory fresh unit or even a return/refund (at their Framework’s discretion).

56

I just wanted to update, for anyone following my situation.

Support replied and apologized for the time and frustration. They offered to go whichever direction I wanted to go (send in for support, try another mainboard, send me a new liquid metal pad/kit, or let me just experiment myself, without affecting my warranty). I chose to just have them send a new liquid metal pad, so I can try another one at some point. For now, my computer is working, so I’m not too bothered.

Despite frustrations along the way, I’m still going to give them props for sticking with it, and ultimately being willing to send parts and/or have me send the computer in for repair. Sure, not all is perfect with the process along the way. But I think they are genuinely trying to help and make sure people’s machines get fixed when there are issues.

So, be aware of potential delays and maybe even some repeated questions if you have to reach out to support, especially if it’s a complex issue. But if you stick it out through the process, so will they, and hopefully you’ll get a satisfactory resolution.

6 Likes
57

10.5wks for me now.

At least I’m getting weekly updates from Framework now, that’s a major improvement.

Unfortunately the updates on Oct 18, 23, and 28 are all slight variations of:

Thank you for your patience. We would like to inform you that we are still waiting for an update from our repair center partner. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Please rest assured that we are actively working on it. We will promptly contact you as soon as we receive an update from them.
Thank you for your understanding.

58

How can Framework decide to proceed with replacing my laptop, then decide my replacement also needs diagnostics and repairs, then not get around to diagnosing and fixing the replacement for a month?

It’s been 11.5 weeks since I mailed the laptop to Framework, and 3.5 weeks since Framework said they’d replace it.

At this point, I feel like Nirav should be personally picking out a brand-new laptop, flying it to me, assembling it for me, testing it for me in front of me including the famous RAM shuffle, giving me another 12 months of warranty, and giving me a $500 Framework store credit. Or something like that. Unreasonable, sure, but that matches my unreasonable experience so far.

1 Like
59

This sounds like a bad joke.

So, if someone wants to buy a new laptop, they need to wait almost a month for someone to manually check it before shipping.

60

No, anyone buying a brand new laptop gets it in just a few days.

The issue is when you receive a defective laptop which can’t be fixed with replacement parts – Framework asks you to send computer to a service center, doesn’t send you any replacement laptop to use while the laptop is in service, and if during service they decide your laptop is unrepairable then they apparently still don’t send you a new laptop but try to find someone else’s broken laptop to repair and send to you instead.

Finally after my latest irate email after weeks of waiting patiently, Framework magically suddenly has a laptop ready to send and has actually provided a shipping number.

That’s really dumb to me that waiting patiently is apparently bad. Anytime I waited patiently, Framework would do nothing for a month. Finally I’d send an irate email, and magically the very next day there’d be a major update. That’s a terrible way to handle customer service if you don’t actually do anything until the customer reaches a certain level of frustration.

6 Likes
61

Finally got the replacement on Nov 7. That’s 12 weeks / 84 days turnaround.

Thankfully the major issue of my macropad having stopped working is now fixed, so at least the service center did something for me.

Performance of the repaired system is worse than when I shipped it to them, but I guess I’ll deal with it since it’s not too far off. Scoring Cinebench R23 multi of 15737 which is still 600 points lower than NotebookCheck, but I guess I’ll deal with it for now.

Other frustration of a USB-A video device not working in my left-nearest port is still not fixed. So that’s extremely annoying, but I can get the device to work in any of the other five ports so I guess I’ll deal with it for now in light of the ridiculous support experience for a $2000 laptop.

1 Like
62

…yikes

3 months turnaround? IIRC, you lose that time as part of your warranty too…

Terrible, just terrible support guys…

2 Likes
63

Another user entered into the documentation / pics / email purgatory:

64

Framework Team member Destroya shared that they have found root cause for some thermal issues. I hope they make it right for all Framework 16 owners regardless of warranty window. Long-term record with FW13 seems to be good, so I am hopeful for FW16 now too in spite of my frustrations so far since release.

1 Like