Ok thanks for this and the detailed explanation above. I guess for starters, maybe whoever is seeing the PSU problems you reported can report their grid voltage and frequency. Maybe ambient room temp as well. You reported going to the basement to get to your FW, so it’s probably relatively cool, but I can’t think of anything else that could be a factor.
I hope Framework can figure this out. They have two units from you on which you observed the problem.
I finally received a PSU replacement and I have tested it out for a few days.
Might be slightly better in terms of PSU fan noise, but still same noise as any other 40mm fan and same fan behavior as previous PSU. The issue really is the PSU just not being able to cool while idling and needing the PSU fan to come on every 15-20min. Even after sitting overnight in a climate controlled 20C room the PSU fan will continue to cycle on for 1-2min 4-5 times an hour.
I tried adding an 80mm intake fan to keep air circulating even when the 120mm APU fan is not spinning. I even tried running with the side panels open or with the PSU completely outside the case. The PSU definitely gets warm and will still get heat soaked and require the PSU fan to come on. Anything short of additional direct active cooling for the PSU or shutting down the system will result in hearing the PSU fan after the PSU has been saturated with enough heat.
I also have some coil whine. A new PSU didn’t change the coil whine, but the coil whine isn’t even as loud or noticeable as the PSU fan.
I have it on 115V/60Hz US grid power. Haven’t done any power measurements, but wouldn’t be surprised if it is relatively inefficient at low load. Most 200+W PSUs are not that efficient at the low end under 10% of peak loads.
I cant believe all of this Fan whinning - it really is discomforting - to the point where I may cancel my order. I am sure people will stand and cheer as they move up the totem pole of deliver but think about it - you go and pay $2300 for a PC and you get a whole bunch of whinning - I can’t take whinning, I am not very tech savy like most here. I am a plug and play guy - plug it in if it works great - but I have a PC now that is as quiet as a mouse have not heard a fan, nothing and now I am maybe getting Godzilla on my desk - well I am taking the weekend to decide whether to pull the plug on this venture. I am not going to change the world either way with this computer and I have Christmas to get ready for. So thanks for brining so much anxiety to my life but what was meant for bad - may turn out for good. Thanks for your honest opinion and hard work - i have no clue what it all means but it sounds (whinning) like trouble.
I think you’re right @m0gg, yours is a unique use case in that the Desktop run 24/7
It sounds like you have few options, too. Other than add an exhaust fan to the top grill, try the Noctua panel, or run the FW in an airconditioned room, you may have to opt for a motherboard only solution and use a different case/PSU or give up on the Desktop altogether.
All in all, I feel for you
Thanks for doing this extra testing, as this answered a lingering question I had. I’ve had dual chamber ATX cases where you can have an idle-stop fan PSU in the lower chamber and then run a slow turning 120mm fan to get enough air moving through the lower chamber that the PSU fan never comes on. That’s full-size ATX desktop stuff, but still, it would have been great if in the Framework instead of the 80mm being up top, it was down bottom and in a dedicated chamber to pull air through the PSU so its fan would actually stay off.
I strongly suspect Framework will come up with a way to address this at some point, but it’s sounding like the fix is simply going to be picking a new PSU or at least new fan control built-in to later PSUs that forces it to at least run the PSU fan at some non-zero speed. I know fan control is often hard at very low duty cycles, but this is a $2000+ computer, they should be able to get the hardware in there to do it right.
This is very worrisome
While prime95 testing is running with my high perf 70W TDP -50mv undervolt profile, pulling 102W @ 230V (impressively here stock and HDplex 250W PSU pull pretty much the same power) closed box with the HDplex sticking out 1-2cm at the back - so to answer my own question, no it does not fully fit inside the case - I’ve a few minutes to add my cents.
First, no complaints at all with the board, fully satisfied, if you’re looking for efficiency I would say 100W TDP is the upper limit, better start looking at 85W TDP or below.
Obviously if you got only the board and another case you’re not reading this thread - if quietest operation is of highest importance to you like it is for me and you do not want any hassle, I would really suggest to get another case - for having all options available go with something that fits a full ATX-PSU, lots of quiet options available there.
For me the space I’ve reserved doesn’t fit anything larger than the Desktop case.
Back in March when I learned about the system I was least impressed with the PSU, an 80+Silver rating wasn’t impressive 15 years ago and that 40mm made me cautious as my opinion was that something like a silent 40mm fan does not exist.
But I also knew with the Framework I would have options - other fan, other PSU, other case, thats all possible - with the other options on the market and pretty much any Mini PC you’re pretty much stuck with the hardware you got.
And I thought 100 Euro just to get in line isn’t much, so I preordered back then - I could always cancel if something better (=potentially quieter) emerges (now we now, it didn’t) or something cheaper (now we know, the other offerings are even more expensive for not offering really more).
What I want is to get the PSU that was promised, with that gradual fan speed control (that’s clearly not happening on my unit - fan speed stays the same no matter if I pull 12W or 220W AC) and the fan carefully selected for smooth operation - I think that FSP is responsible to provide QC and that has failed for quite a few units (and unfortunately this appears to not be the first time in FSP history, there is a recent review for an FSP PSU on Igors Lab and the comments do not paint a favourable picture of FSP QC).
tl;dr: I do not think Framework are really to blame here, they tried to design a solution for the very small case for a reasonable cost - only reason I could see why they didn’t go with a higher efficiency rating to begin with.
What I really would like to know - who thought that a closed box with the only real fan in the system turned off by default when the system idles so there’s no moving air whatsoever could have worked out with that low idle efficiency PSU?
And, why not going with an external PSU - like with every notebook and almost every Mini PC on the market - that I didn’t understand even back in March - heck they could have paired the ATX DC-DC board available from HDplex (a design also known as PicoPSU for at least 15 years) with the 240W brick supplied with the FW16 laptop - and if that is more expensive, make it a “silence enthusiast” option for a markup, I certainly would have ordered that.
I may even try that exact configuration one day.
Perhaps there will be a Framwork copper heat sink to fill this prior unknown demand?
Again, really disappointing that Framework does not engage in the conversation on this issue in this forum. It feels like they’re capitulating on this, the closed slot, and eGPU issues. That’s not the ‘community’ Framework I thought it was. Very disappointed!
That’s just too funny 
I’m not a power expert, and I am asking this seriously: how realistic is this idea? Could an external power brick provide the juice, and different voltages, needed for the motherboard?
It apparently works fine for the GMKtec Evo-X2. I wouldn’t expect 160W TDP to work with that, but if you want quiet you want efficiency anyway and for Strix Halo that means <100W TDP.
Personally I would go with the HDplex 200W one.
I also made some researchs at one point and this modded Enhance PSU could maybe also be a good candidate. But it is difficult to be sure. The Framework one was supposed to be good on paper.
Looks technically very nice, reasonable price - though specs say its 165mm long, 15mm more than the Framework one, so I’m afraid the cables for the front ports may be also in the way here.
But maybe a good idea for use in another small case.
I am not sure if it fits but a costly but doable option should be using the HD-Plex 500W DC/DC convertertin the case in combination with a Dell 360W GaN external power brick (which is rated for even higher probably non-sustained wattage). The converter has all the ATX connectors and power rails. All together you are looking there at a 300 EUR investment.
The HD-PLex 250W GaN would be considerably less expensive at about half that price but someone wrote here that it does not quite fit by 1-2cm. I don’t know if you can make it fit somehow but the alternative would be to go straight to a 3rd party SFF case. Then you could still be below 300 EUR for case plus a regular semi-passive SFF PSU (with 650W or so the fan should actually never even turn on then but even if it does, those are pretty silent)
This is a disappointing thread to read. Ordering my Desktop now and was surprised the PSU wasn’t on the bring you own list. Wish even more now that it was.
There are folk that have had the experiences documented in this thread and other who don’t. I too was quite concerned but in the end decided I was catastrophizing and went ahead with my order. In the end I figured there were plenty of ways of dealing with the PSU should I have coil whine or fan noise. I’m in Batch 14 like you. Fingers cross 
I’m afraid that I have these same symptoms.
@kmh just to make sure, you also had the symptoms described above? Can you please confirm that the replacement PSU you got sounds more like a “gradual ramp to the target RPM”?
