Living in Poland, just next to Germany, makes me extra frustrated. Especially because Polish commonly have multi-currency credit/banking cards, with automatic option to pay in euros.
@devryd @Moffintops i guess this is a mix of potentially having to rework their payment process to integrate paypal etc. and maybe overestimating the use of credit cards in the target audience. I’m sure they’ll add payment options if enough people ask for them.
there is actually already a thread for this where you may be able to track progress:
Multiple payment methods?
Well, here we go now in Europe!
But there are also some downers:
The price is quite high (sure the import tax needs to be encountered): it starts at €899 with nothing added at all! Considering that the exchange is $1,13 for €1, that means an extra cost of 35,4% for only the base model. If you than add some storage and so on (with is better priced) you will pass well beyond the €1000 mark.
The payment methods are very limited: no paypal, no google pay, …
The website seems to not be finished either: some translation mistakes (as some have already noticed), the legal pages are only in English, the link for “Vertragsbedingungen” seems to be broken and as far as I can tell (Im not a lawyer), there are also some legal information missing.
I hope you guys will fix some of these issues over the next few weeks and get many new customers!
Im looking forward for a European-repair-your-laptop-future
According to my experience with Croatian people, some people would prefer to have EUR than their country’s currency (HRK). And I assume some people have a banking account and the credit card in different country from their living country. So, it’s better to split into 3 settings: “(Living) Country” and “Currency” (Country of the banking account) and “Language”.
that is not exactly correct, they do add the wifi card now plus the labor cost to install it.
but nevertheless i agree, i had hoped that inflation etc. would not have to be shouldered by us later buyers
if one adds 19% VAT for Germany, the aforementioned wifi costs and the warranty, 899€ is right around (or even below) the 1$ : 1€ ratio one mostly finds for US products sold here. That of course in turn means that the Framework laptop was pricier than I had thought for US customers, but well, idc, as long as they suffer the same haha
A few notes on pricing:
- VAT is included (unlike US/Canada, where taxes are calculated during checkout).
- DIY Edition now includes WiFi, while it is separate still for US/Canada.
- SN750 SSDs availability is declining, so mostly SN850 storage options are available (or you can bring your own).
- We offer a 2 year warranty instead of the 1 year that we have in US/Canada.
Thanks everyone for the notes on translations. We are capturing these and will adjust.
I’m a bit confused about the “Staat” (btw this would be more properly translated as “Bundesland”) part of the Address. The state is not part of the address in Germany, having this field seems entirely unnecessary.
Edit: Also… only credit card? Well, that’s immediately preventing or at least significantly delaying my preorder anyways.
it’s probably necessary for their database. but i do remember filling out some “Bundesland” fields in german shops as well.
As a reference, Framework should not model Dell’s website. Dell’s each country’s website and organization (team) are quite vertical by a country. I hope Framework try to pursue the universal experience of users in the globe not like the website of Dell but like the website of ZSA and Netflix.
Here is the actual situation in Dell’s websites I experienced before buying Framework Laptop. Far from the universal experience. Very complicated.
- https://www.dell.com/en-us : USA, English: only people in US could buy on this website. Dell XPS 13 Developer edition was available.
- https://www.dell.com/de-de : Germany, German: only people in Germany could buy on this website. Dell XPS 13 Developer edition was not available.
- http://www.dell.cz/ : Czech Republic, Czech language, the e-shopping was not available. people could not buy on their website. To ask to buy it, I needed to contact another local Dell partner company by email. Dell XPS 13 Developer edition was not available.
I had to double take on the config page as I was looking for the wifi. It may be worth adding a note somewhere on the configuration flow that wifi is indeed included.
Its a little more expensive than I was hoping but i’m happy to put my hand in my pocket to support framework as I share the vision of serviceable items.
@junaruga you mean something like the selector at aliexpress right? of course with a better design
Thanks for claryfication! I totally missed the point with VAT.
“aliexpress”? AliExpress - Wikipedia ? I don’t understand it. Could you tell me more about it?
yes that’s the one. it was really neat for importing goods from china until the EU decided to collect VAT on orders under ~25€ as well. If you go to their german site for example (https://de.aliexpress.com/) there is a dropdown menu at the top where you can select your language, country and currency separately. I assumed that was similar to what you had in mind.
Ah okay, yes right. Now I understand it. I didn’t know the site and I haven’t used the site. And the site looks very good for Framework to model. Thanks for sharing it!
This is great news for me as a person who broke wifi antenna cables and wifi card at once and then bought those again. So many great news today. Thanks Framework team!
I agree. It’s quite a flop on Framework’s part. And the whole announcement is rather underwhelming: after such a delay since the launch in the US, they only managed to open pre-orders in 3 (three) European countries. For everybody else, turns out there wasn’t much to wait for.
I’ve been watching what Framework’s doing with interest, as they did get some things right, and I’d very much like such an idea to succeed, but I’m afraid it’s high time for them to up their game if they want customers like me. While I’m not in need of another laptop, I’d have ordered one long time ago just to support the idea, if it were available to me. But at this moment, considering so much time has passed and it still isn’t, I won’t. Even if I actually needed to change my laptop, I’d just get something else instead.
I don’t quite understand why I can’t order from Germany when my shipping address is Dutch.
Very frustrating, since there is no acceptable good reason for it.
The EU is one big open market, explicitly to ensure we have the freedom to order/buy anything in any European country.
And now it’s -annoyingly- a disabled dropdown menu on the website, that prevents me from ordering. Without any legal or logical rationale.
Why? If the shipping cost is 10 euro’s more, just charge it…
I’ve been waiting for half a year, and now seem to be missing out even on the European February batch And for no good reason, it seems… I love German documentation.
@BlueBird I get your frustration, but I think you demand a lot from a startup consisting of 25 people as we speak; especially in times like these. If a company like Lenovo or Dell had these kind of hiccups, I’d be aboard with you, but I think the Framework team deserves a little more patience and goodwill.
@Mark1 I completely understand that you’re frustrated with this…
I’ve had a few lectures on legalities on trade in Germany&EU in my university.
And unfortunately, whilst it’s all “one free open market”, the EU still has very different legal requirements for each and every country. Trade is tax-free, but you’ll still have to comply with the laws®ulations of each individual european country.
Simple things like VAT can be different in each country. Even the currency can be.
I can’t speak for Framework, but I think thats mostly where the problem lies.
That info doesn’t help you, but I hope it at least can provide a bit of context on why this is taking so annoyingly long.
TLDR; EU is one big market, but individual EU countries are still very much their own legal beasts.