I experimented with this problem again and still find the left-front port to have the hardest time seeing my external USB-A drive if I don’t do the halfway plugin trick.
However, this time around I also found the drive to be flaky in the right-front port. Sometimes it would appear immediately, but sometimes it would appear after ~15 seconds, and sometimes it wouldn’t appear at all. This happened (though never consistently) as I kept swapping which of the 2 USB-A expansion cards I was using. It was even the case that the drive sometimes appeared without problems (or halfway plugin trick) in the left-front port. Unfortunately, I’m no Charles Darwin, so I didn’t write down all of my observations as I was experimenting. At one point I had a theory that if I sort of pushed up on the USB-A plug as I was inserting it, then it would work. However, this failed to bring the cargo consistently. My current unscientific determination is that the interaction of the drive with the ports is flaky.
Also, I wonder if we could change the tag on this post from “Framework Laptop” to “Community Support”? I’m not sure how to do that
I reached out to support and they sent me this at first:
Given the information you’ve provided, you will likely need to perform a full mainboard reset as it may have problems with detecting your hardware after following the EMI Shield Fix. We have a step-by-step guide located here: Fully Resetting the Mainboard State - Framework Guides that will walk you through the steps to have the laptop goes into its initial state and will reset the hardware detection of your motherboard.
Which I performed. After doing that, my left bottom port seemed to work perfectly, but I still had the same issue with the left top port. I performed the reset again, and then tried the EMI sticker fix for that port again with another reset. Unfortunately that didn’t help.
They then escalated the ticket and long story short, I’m getting a replacement mainboard that should arrive this Tuesday. I’ll be thoroughly testing the replacement and will report back here! That should hopefully give some insight into if this is a hardware issue.
Chiming in to say that the replacement mainboard has seemed to fix all my weird USB issues, so it may indeed be a hardware issue.
Took a while as the second replacement mainboard was also damaged upon arrival (bent heatsink/board, yikes!) but support sent out another replacement shortly after (next day IIRC). The third replacement arrived undamaged and worked.
Also, the new one came with the Tempo audio chip (my previous was Realtek). It worked out of the box in Linux (Fedora), but I couldn’t get it to work in Windows until I found and uninstalled conflicting Realtek software, then re-installed the Framework driver bundle.
I’d say overall incredible support, so if anyone from the team is reading this, thanks again and please keep it up!
I probably won’t replace my mainboard since I have an easy workaround, although maybe I should because the same issue could be responsible for the 1TB Expansion Disconnect problem. And it could also be a warranty issue?
Oddly enough, even though I love Framework’s mission of empowering users to repair and modify their laptops, I myself am completely inept at this sort of thing and the 34-step replacement guide looks very intimidating to me!
Ah, I could’ve tested with my prior mainboard and 1TB SSD (in a 3rd party enclosure) plugged into the quirky USB port, too late though
From what I can recall, I used to have my 1TB SSD plugged into a non-issue port seeding files for an extended period (~a few days), and I don’t think it ever disconnected when it shouldn’t have (in Fedora Linux, not sure about Windows).
I’d say if it works perfectly in some USB ports and not others, it might be a hardware issue.
I have a suspicion that the faulty port I was plugging my monitor into (power, data, USB, etc.) would “crash” causing my laptop to freeze, because those random freezes no longer occur with the new mainboard. That could’ve been fixed from a Linux kernel update though.
As for replacing the mainboard – it was much easier than I anticipated, though I do have a lot of prior experience building desktops and tweaking laptops – so my view may be warped. But it’s basically just unplugging connectors and ribbon cables (which are definitely fragile and it’s good to be overly cautious, but really not that frightening). Then replugging/screwing everything back in. The mainboard only has 5 screws to hold it in place. Once I got the process down, it took like 5 minutes total.
One more piece of info… I just discovered that when my Framework reboots, if I have the USB drive plugged in and recognized, then it stays accessible after the reboot. However, if it’s plugged in and not accessible (i.e. I didn’t do the halfway plugin trick before fully plugging it in), then it’s still inaccessible after reboot. Finally, if it’s accessible, and then I shutdown the computer, it becomes inaccessible when the computer boots up again.
Even though this particular quirky USB port problem wasn’t bothering me too much since I had the workaround, I started experiencing more and more problems with my 1 TB storage expansion card disconnecting almost every day.
After some back and forth with Framework support (including opening the laptop and sending them some pictures), they decided I needed to replace the mainboard. They quickly sent me a replacement (which I installed mostly myself, with a little moral support and supervision from a friend), and now I can plug my USB drives normally. No halfway trickery needed!
Many thanks to Framework support! You guys are great!
The problem has returned for me. At least the workaround still works.
I’m just wondering if this oddity is related to the problem of external USB drives randomly disconnecting, which is my real problem. Just today, for instance, I was in the middle of backing up my computer when the USB drive disconnected. This has happened a couple of times, though this morning it happened in a non-quirky port. (And in fact, I switched to the quirky port and the backup succeeded).
Just to clarify, both my 1 TB expansion card and a different USB drive disconnect randomly. The 1 TB disconnect problem is well known and discussed at length in another thread. However, I don’t think there’s a problem with the 1 TB drive itself. I think it’s related to some more fundamental USB port problem.
I think I know why the flaky behavior and disconnects are happening though I don’t know how to fix it. The problem has to do with USB 2 vs USB 3 connections.
When an external drive negotiates a USB 3 connection, it uses more power. USBDeview reports 896 mA for a USB 3.0 connection vs 300 mA for a USB 2.0 connection with my 2 TB Seagate drive.
When I plug in the drive in halfway, it negotiates a USB 2.0 speed connection which uses less power. This connection is very stable for me.
When I plug the drive in all the way to begin with, there’s not always enough power to get the 3.0 connection to work so the drive doesn’t appear. However sometimes there is enough power so the drive appears, but the 3.0 connection is less stable on my Framework and can disconnect.
This is the same with my 1 TB expansion card drive which disconnects often. I eventually started experimenting by connecting the 1 TB drive via a USB-C male-to-female adapter connected to a USB-C to USB-C cable into a USB-C slot in the Framework. I noticed that using a charging USB-C cable with only USB 2.0 data speeds would stay solidly connected. However, when I used a USB 3.2 speed cable to connect it, I would have disconnect problems. This is, in fact, what led me to figure out this important difference in connection types and stability.
Now if anybody can tell me why this should cause problems and how to fix it, that would be the final piece of the puzzle. Shouldn’t the Framework be able to handle these power requirements. Say 900 mA per USB port?
Unless you show us some kernel logs (dmesg on linux, Event Viewer on Windows) there is quite less we can do to help you here.
When I plug the drive in all the way to begin with, there’s not always enough power to get the 3.0 connection to work so the drive doesn’t appear. However sometimes there is enough power so the drive appears, but the 3.0 connection is less stable on my Framework and can disconnect.
Why is there not enough power? Which part is providing insufficient power supply?
I can connect external SSDs via USB A (USB 3.0) just fine. Which drive do you use exactly?
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I guess I’ve mostly been posting event logs in the other 1 TB expansion card disconnect thread, though I’ve always had the suspicion that these two problems are related. These are the only sorts of Windows event log messages that seem relevant:
Log Name: System
Source: disk
Date: 3/12/2023 11:24:32 AM
Event ID: 157
Task Category: None
Level: Warning
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: WorkBrian
Description:
Disk 3 has been surprise removed.
Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-USB-USBHUB3
Date: 3/13/2023 6:07:48 AM
Event ID: 196
Task Category: Surprise Removal
Level: Warning
Keywords: (1)
User: SYSTEM
Computer: WorkBrian
Description:
USB device draining system power when system is idle.
Also when the a USB drive fails to appear in the list of drives after plugging it in, it will sometimes show up in the Device Manager as Unknown USB Device (Port Reset Failed) with the following device status:
Windows has stopped this device because it has reported problems. (Code 43)
A USB port reset request failed.
If anybody knows of any other messages or diagnostics that I should check for on Windows, let me know!
The disconnect problems happen with the 1 TB Framework expansion card as well as a Seagate 2 TB external drive and a Seagate 4 TB drive. I’ve only seen the quirky connect problems happen with the Seagate drives. I don’t know for sure that it’s a power thing. It’s just a theory trying to unify all of the mysterious behavior.
Oh yes, I also have a ticket going. I just thought I’d post here because I was excited to have found a sort-of grand unified theory behind the 1 TB expansion card disconnect and the Quirky USB port. Those following along know that I’ve been on a quest to unite these two problems into a single explanatory framework
[quote=“brianshmrian, post:22, topic:9427”]
Oh yes, I also have a ticket going. I just thought I’d post here because I was excited to have found a sort-of grand unified theory behind the 1 TB expansion card disconnect and the Quirky USB port. [/quote]
Sounds good, appreciate that. Keep us posted how the ticket goes, it may be a bit as troubleshooting stuff like this is a bit of back and forth. Please do all things suggested (even if you don’t think it’s relevant), that way if is needs to be escalated, all the basic stuff is already done.
Ive had similar issues now that ive posted about twice, with malfunctioning USB ports. Even in the boot menu sometimes it wont find the USB devices. I noticed this very early on but just assumed this was an issue with the USB devices itself. Ill try what Brainshmrain did with resetting the mainboard state, but honestly ive been trying to resolve this for about half a year with no resolve.
I haven’t resolved the problem either. My best work around has been to use this powered USB-C hub. My devices connect and are stable when I plug them into the hub.
