Depends on your use case IMO, shouldnt be that bemusing. Wonder if your running windows, my 8 y/o laptop with 4gb ram is running quite sluggish. Definitely needs a repaste too. 11y/o still running windows would be pretty OP on day 1 or heavy optimization.
I’m currently working with a 15 year old Dell Studio 17" running Win7 on an Intel Core Duo (which is a pseudo 64 bit machine as far as I can work out), which is a hand-me-down from my wife when we retired. She got a new secondhand Dell as the replacement for her work laptop that she wouldn’t have any more, and she was having problems with this machine.
So I have ordered an FW16 which I am hoping will be the last machine I will need to buy, especially as I plan to max out the memory and disk.
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Bad news :-(, check emails
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Just got an update email from FW re the FW16 laptops being delayed. Sounds like mass production will start about a month from now only.
They also provide a list of 10 outstanding showstoppers, and to me, honestly, it all sounds very reasonable things to be concerned about. Most of these sound like fixes just need a full testing cycle.
The biggest sounding issues seem centered around power management, which is to be expected as its the firsts PD 180W/240W notebook on the market, also has swappable expansion bay and swappable expansion modules, all with bi-directional power flow.
It’s the thing that enables the single most defining feature of the Framework laptops, so I’m happy they work on getting these perfect.
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Oh dear. Least they recognise that they can use the manufacturing capacity to get the FW13 AMD batches out of the way and use that capacity to ramp up the FW16 to catch up. Maybe my Batch 12 at the end of Q1 will still be on time.
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If you didn’t get the email, here it is (part 1 of 2)
Update on Framework Laptop 16 shipment timing
Based on the remaining engineering validation we need to complete and open issues that we are in the process of resolving, we have high risk on our first shipment timing (currently targeting mid-December) and on starting mass production early enough to get a substantial number of Q4-batch units out before the end of the year. We have dedicated engineering teams across Framework, AMD, our main manufacturing partner Compal, and our key module manufacturers working daily on closing the remaining open items, which we have more detail on below. We’re committed to transparency, and we’ll continue to keep you up to date with regular emails as we complete validation, start manufacturing ramp, and fulfill batches.
Note that we’ve fully built up factory capacity, so once we start mass production of Framework Laptop 16, we’ll be able to make our way through batches quickly like we have recently on Framework Laptop 13. We’ll also likely be fully through production of the pre-order backlog on Framework Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040 Series) before we start ramping Framework Laptop 16, so we’ll have minimal contention for our manufacturing lines and fulfillment capacity.
We know this delay is disappointing, but we prioritize building products for longevity, stability and quality. To paraphrase the saying in the video game industry, delayed hardware is eventually good, but rushed hardware is forever bad (even when it’s repairable and upgradeable). This is especially true for Framework Laptop 16, where we’re locking in a first design and architecture now that we’ll carry forward over multiple generations of updates. We understand if the product timing no longer meets your requirements, and you can follow the instructions in the Knowledge Base article here to cancel and refund your pre-order if necessary. If you have an urgent need for a laptop and don’t have a strong screen size preference, Framework Laptop 13 is also in stock now for Intel configs and is about a month away from being in stock for AMD.
Details on remaining opens and validation items
We don’t want to provide messaging around delay risk without giving transparency on where the risk comes from. This is part of our core philosophy of showing you what goes into building consumer electronics products. For context on the list below, these are what we consider the most critical open items out of a longer list of engineering and operations tasks that are in progress. While there are smaller issues that we would potentially defer into a firmware update if needed, these are ones that pass the threshold to hold production for. For more context, this is also not an atypical list to have for a complex hardware product late in its DVT2 development phase. We were tracking a similarly critical (though slightly smaller) list in the weeks prior to Framework Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040 Series) mass production.
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part 2/2
- The fans have a small chirping noise on startup - This is actually an issue we identified during our earlier DVT1 build and had a proposed fix from our supplier for DVT2. However, the change introduced a side effect that causes the fans to ramp up to a higher RPM than what they are set to before settling to their correct speed. We’re working with Cooler Master (our fan supplier) and the chip vendor for the fan controller on a proper solution.
- Our Numpad vendor used out of spec resistors - We found that some Numpad Input Modules weren’t consistently getting recognized. This turned out to be due to the supplier accidentally using 5% tolerance resistors for the board ID instead of the 1% that we specified. The supplier is now building a new set of interface boards with the correct resistor.
- Tuning capacitor noise - In some scenarios, capacitors on high power switching regulators have high frequency noise. We’re adjusting both the capacitor count and swapping the necessary ones out to low-noise capacitors.
- Cosmetic issues on aluminum forming parts using high recycled material content - A few of the aluminum parts on Framework Laptop 16 like the area around the Touchpad and the flat plate on the Expansion Bay Modules use >50% post-consumer-recycled aluminum. In our last batch of samples pre-MP, we found noticeable line marks and other cosmetic issues. We’re working with the supplier to tune in their process.
- Graphics Module compatibility issues in Linux - We’re working closely with the team at AMD to debug Linux compatibility issues on the Graphics Module. Linux compatibility is extremely important, and we’re committed to making sure it is smooth before launch.
- USB-PD firmware is in the process of completion - With the Framework Laptop 16 being the first product on the market supporting 180W and 240W USB-C along with a complex scheme for handling Expansion Cards, our USB-PD firmware is complicated. Implementation is nearly complete, and we also want to ensure we do sufficient testing.
- Late display firmware update - We found a late configuration issue in the EDID on our semi-custom panel that resulted in the 100% DCI-P3 color gamut not being handled correctly. We have a firmware update coming from the display supplier BOE shortly that we will test and then roll out into first production.
- Power tuning during heavy loading - When running torture tests on the CPU and GPU simultaneously especially while the battery is low, we’ve seen system power offs or PROCHOT throttling. We’re working closely with AMD and Compal on tuning Smart Shift to handle different loading and power conditions to ensure stable performance that limits gracefully if needed during low battery conditions.
- LED Matrix module schedule is trending late - We made some late tooling adjustments on the plastic enclosure for the LED Matrix module. We’re working with the supplier to pull in their schedule to meet the launch timing.
- Expansion Bay Interposer manufacturing yields - We built a custom connector for the interposer for the Expansion Bay modules to make it substantially more robust to handling and cycling. This required both new tooling and new manufacturing fixtures at the supplier. In the early production runs of it, manufacturing yields were lower than we can ramp with. The supplier is tuning their processes to improve this.
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yes, I agree. it is refreshing to see an actually detailed, and reassuring, description of the issues.
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The delay is disappointing, sure, but I really appreciate the level of transparency here. I’m glad to see Framework’s commitment to getting this correct right out the gate!
And hey, I’ve been waiting a few years for this (basically what I wanted ever since the reveal of the original Framework 13!), so another month or so won’t hurt!
Now, about those deep dives…
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Deep dives? What is that?
Ohhh, yeah. Those were great! I miss them. 
Well, I guess Framework is dedicating all resources to trying to not let the FW16 release slip. With anything else going to the huge customer service load they have right now.
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a deep dive about how FW16 is going to be future-proofed would be nice.
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That’d require a time machine. 
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This shows that they are really still busy testing and adjusting the product like a Formula 1 car trying to set it up as soon as possible under high pressure. But to be honest, the delay does not really come as a surprise given that even the deep dives supposedly “coming soon” suddenly stopped entirely.
Yes, it is a shame that effectively this product missed its launch year and that the notebook is now a 2024 product pure and simple. But I personally have to say the transparency is absolutely awesome, impressive. And I am also relieved. It shows they are taking this very, very seriously and do not let themselves be rushed. I am glad this project that so many have been waiting for is in such safe hands - honestly.
But just to put my own “fan” opinion into perspective, I remember seeing several posts here of people desperately waiting for it, so I understand that some are actually disappointed first that “Q4” apparently meant days before Christmas (omg) and now it means - 2024.
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I agree that this level of transparency means they are taking it seriously.
I’m one of the people “desperately waiting for it”. Even though I’m limping on with my half broken notebook, I’m still able to use it for work. Just learned to… not move it 
I’m basically hoping for the deep dives to resume before the end of the year.
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Yup. Disappointing on the one hand, but the transparency of issues, fixes in hand, testing to round them up is so, SO refreshing and appreciated. Unfortunate, but not entirely surprising, but THIS level of communication is what more companies should aspire to. Don’t hide everything and think it’ll torpedo the company. These days, quite the opposite. Doesn’t have to be super detailed, but a bit of information, a bit of acknowledgement of buyers/prospective buyers concerns have been heard, even if can’t always be acted upon.
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I hope FW takes the time needed to create a great product.
I personally hope they prioritize quality over rushed delivery. I rather wait 3 months longer and get a good product, instead of having it early at the cost of substantial problems. Even 6 months more is better than half-baked stuff out the door.
Yes, and thanks for the transparency, FW!
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New processor comes out, upgrade the motherboard.
New display technology comes out, upgrade the display.
Wifi, RAM, storage, same deal.
New GPU? Hope someone engineers a Bay module for it.
That’s about as future-proof as portables get.
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Last update was 15 days ago, Friday is December 1st. When do you think our next update will be? It seems like there were many issues that could make an update/ timeline challenging. What do ya’ll think?
Since the last update mentioned mid-December as the target for first shipment (and an at-risk target at that) I imagine they won’t communicate any potential delays until we get closer to that mid-December point.
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