Hi all. I’m Mark Laslett. I want to purchase a Framework 16 to replace my old MS Surface - the battery is dying! Was looking for a laptop where the battery was replaceable and saw the Framework ad. The modularity impressed me. I travel to Europe, the Americas & need a computer with grunt that will not die with the battery!
I live in NZ & Framework doesn’t ship there yet, though it does ship to Australia. I do have family in Australia who could on-ship to me, but that seems clunky and unnecessary. I cannot find where to have a discussion with Framework Sales to see if shipping to NZ is possible. Any suggestions?
My first trip is late April so some urgency exists. Thanks in addvance.
Hey Mark, welcome to the forum
I think there are a lot of people from different countries waiting for shipping to theirs. However, Discussion of Freight Forwarding is Prohibited as you can read in that post.
So from their side they’re most probably not going to support shipping to unlisted countries on an individual basis, and discussing forwarding is not welcome here. I suppose you’ll have to find a solution with your relatives in Australia.
While the use of Freight Forwarding companies is not allowed (outside of the EU), Framework mods do allow discussion of a family member purchasing a laptop for you. Which is what @Mark_Laslett mentioned. So he’s ok.
I’m afraid having family purchase a laptop for you will be the only option. Be aware that the payment method must also be theirs / based in a supported country. And the laptop will belong to them for the purpose of any warranty. It comes down to the fact that Framework just doesn’t have the permission to sell in unsupported countries / to residents. It’s not Framework trying to be difficult or anything. Playing by the rules helps them when working on permission to sell there.
You’re ok to discuss this. As long as no one talks about using paid Freight Forwarding services.
I had my FW13 shipped to Canada only days before my father was able to bring it over to NZ. He flies to NZ every year so in 2024, I look for him to bring a FW16.
Paying for 2 lots of shipping isn’t ideal. Perhaps over time FrameWork will include NZ as one of their places they will ship.
I think you will find that it comes down to being suitably registered with the local tax authorities for the purpose of collecting VAT (in NZs case, in other countries the local sales tax goes by other names) and arranging for a local agent that can be chased by the taxman when there are problems.
I appreciate that issue & certainly don’t criticise Framework on that. Getting an agent here shouldn’t be that difficult. There are any number of small companies who can manage sales & repairs. I wouldn’t use the big retailers as the after sales service usually is very average at best.
Quite the coincidence, yes I am in Christchurch. I’m not sure what more you would get by seeing the laptop in person. After using it for the past month (running Ubuntu) I can’t say it’s been revolutionary compared to any other laptop. My previous setup was a ThinkPad X61 with my external monitor rotated in portrait. Yes the FW13 is a lot faster and I can view in 4K off YouTube no problem, but it’s not something I am raving about. What would be more useful for me is more full featured keyboard like the early ThinkPads that had full dedicate Fn row buttons and PgPupHomeEnd keys without having to press the Fn button all the time. I am a LOT slower having to press 2 buttons to navigate around my work.
My son has been nagging me hard for a gaming PC and the FW16 looks promising. I’ve seen many others over the several years go with Dell, Asus, HP, etc. laptops and overall, they’re still junk compared to the early ThinkPads. Yes they’re faster because of newer CPUs but I truly miss ‘drop dock’ style connectivity vs physically grabbing a USB-C cable to plug into a dongle.
As for FrameWork shipping to NZ, I am uncertain as they will need to be GST registered and the extra accounting may not be worth it. If they sell through an online portal like AliExpress, the process is more simple.
Thanks for that. Still wouldn’t mind seeing it. The absence of the top row of function keys is always an issue with most laptops. I have had 2 Surface laptops over last 6 years. They are OK - nice & light / compact, but that is over-rated compared to ease of use and functionality.
My email is laslettmark@gmail.com if you are OK for me to come & look at the Framework.
Cheers
I know this topic is a few months old now but I am also from New Zealand and I stop by frame.work from time to time to see if anything has changed regarding supported countries. I also receive their newsletters. The situation of supported countries hasn’t changed much in a long time so I’ve pretty much given up waiting.
Frankly I don’t think this has a lot to do with arranging for tax and permission to sell. I am into audio and home automation and for like thirty years I have bought from numerous companies overseas, mostly in the US. I’ve never come across a company that adopts such a vigorous approach to where they sell and don’t sell. It’s not about paying tax because as long as packages are properly documented, the customs people will usually put a stop on the package and send me a bill for the GST. I mean I’ve even had customs stop my melatonin at the border and they would only release it when I could give them a letter from my doctor saying he’s happy for me to take it. It’s not about shipping because global shipping companies do ship straight to New Zealand. It’s not about the payment method because we do have global payment systems like Visa here. It’s not about providing support for the product because I don’t think Framework has support people and outlets in places like Australia where they sell to; in the end you’re still dealing with Framework directly and support is going to come from wherever in the world the support person is. And I find it strange that Framework sells to some countries but not others in the same economic region who have similar legal systems.
Yes, there is always a risk when buying from an overseas company that they won’t honour the warranty, and if that happens then you’re probably stuck. But people like me can decide to take that risk, and I’ve never been burned by that. In the end, whether a company honours its warranty comes down to company culture, and I’m confident Framework would honour the warranty regardless of the law in the country they sell to.
So I have to say Framework has lost a lot of credibility with me. I stop by every so often to see if they’ve changed their approach but still they haven’t. I think at this rate, I’ll die before they get to a small country like New Zealand.
Hi Clive, I wholeheartedly share your sentiment. I very recently came to know about this company & their unique product. This got me very excited to search their online store & order my own. But, lo & beheld, it can’t be shipped to me because my country Qatar is not on the supported list of countries! Total bummer to be honest with you. I’m still hopeful these weird little continental trade rules & misunderstandings get worked out very soon. Like before the end of the year soon, because I can’t wait to get my hands on this piece of tech.
I hope you eventually get your chance to own and use one of these laptops. But I do suggest you be careful not to put your life on hold while you wait.
As for me, I decided a few months ago that I couldn’t wait any longer so my small company purchased 3 Lenovo X13 laptops that arrived I think from Australia within a couple of weeks of ordering. This just illustrates the absurdity of selling to one country but not another with similar rules in the same region. Anyway I’m now not in the market for a Framework laptop.
I’m just an end user (in the US), so take this as an educated guess.
I have been under the impression that the main issue that Framework faces is two fold, but related: US restrictions on exporting computing devices, and many countries having different rules and laws regarding devices with radios (specifically wifi and bluetooth in laptops).
While Framework is a small company, it is unlikely to be able to certify its products with all countries’ radio regulatory body. While there is often an exception for individuals bringing personal devices in limited quantities into a country, as soon as a company assists in helping customers bypass a country’s regulatory body, that company can become liable and that is likely to make it harder to get approved in the future.
When countries are part of a communal economic zone, such as the EU, it definitely makes things easier, but I am under the impression that the EU is a bit of an anomaly. I believe getting approval in one country in the EU gets reciprocal approval throughout the EU. I don’t think that applies to other many countries, such as Australia and New Zealand, though I could easily be wrong.
It you look at the FW power brick, and see the amount of regulatory approval markings, and then compare that with say a HP laptop power brick. You will see how many more approvals FW will need before it can deliver to all the countries HP do. It’s a lot of work for a little company like FW.
Note: I only chose HP because I happen to have a HP power brick from a previous, now dead, laptop.
It not approved by country it’s an EU legislation, however each country can apply it’s own import rules, to the extent that Spain has a 3 year limited warranty. The UK, no longer in the EU had to be dealt with separately but has a 2 year warranty.
However in the EU given the number of different languages their has to be a demand to produce the localised keyboards, so some countries in the EU cannot buy direct, but freight forwarding is acceptable in the EU but not otherwise between soverign states.
Congrats on the laptops you & your team went with. The Lenovo X13 laptops are a known quantity & a powerhouse. Unfortunate you couldn’t get your hands on these Framework systems but, oh well, hopefully by the time you need an upgrade they’ll be readily available.
You know what, this situation reminds of what happened with Steam Decks when they first launched. Similarly it was impossible to order/buy directly from Steam due to it being “region restricted” at first. I was able to get it from a reputable tech online store in Dubai then had it shipped to Qatar at above market price no less. Let me tell you that will never happen again. A year & half later it was readily available in every tech store in Qatar fully loaded at very affordable prices. I learned my lesson & I’m willing to wait on Framework to figure this out. Meantime, I’m stuck with my years old & reliable Macbook Pro.
Wishing you & your team all the best in your business.
A very reasonable & understandable explanation. Let’s wait & see. Hopefully Framework figures it all out as soon as possible. Their value proposition just makes all the sense to me & I’m excited to get my hands on aN AMD powred FW 13. Thanks.
