I have what I’m assuming will be an unpopular opinion here.
I don’t need expansion cards.
I almost never change the expansion cards in my 11th gen Framework laptop. The recommended combination of expansion cards(2x USB-C, HDMI, USB-A) would cover almost all of my use cases. When I do need a different expansion card it’s just as easy for me to grab a USB C dongle from my drawer. (I keep my expansion cards in the same drawer as my other dongles).
I say all this because in engineering there’s always tradeoffs. Instead of modular IO I would rather have:
larger / quieter cooling system.
Better speakers
Larger battery.
Given that Framework is making expansion cards a feature in their latest products(desktop, 12" laptop), it seems like the cards are part of Framework’s core brand identity, so I don’t see Framework releasing a product without expansion cards.
I’m curious if other people really like expansion cards or like me they would be willing to trade them for making their Framework 13 laptop better in other ways?
I love them. I don’t know of any laptops out there other than the Framework 13 where I can have four usbc connections going at once. My peripherals are almost universally usbc, but it is great when I need to suddenly do a presentation and well…HDMI, got it, Displayport, got it, usb A, got it, card reader got it, someone else need a converter but they only have usbc port available…got them covered. Yeah that last one happened to me last weekend. Usbc port goes bad…solder a new one? Nope just replace the expansion card because unlike a regular device I only stress the actuall motherboard direct mounted usbc a fraction of the time I do those of the expansion cards, and when I do they are being pulled in an expected direction along a very specific path, so it is unlikely they will ever wear out during the lifetime of the motherboard. I can’t say the same for other laptops I have had. So in short I would never trade fixed i/o for the modular adaptable, repairable goodness I have.
I see your point, and I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Having fully personalized IO is super nice. If you need DisplayPort and HDMI, you can have it. You can put the charging port on the side that you prefer and not waste a port on the other side. You can have three SD card readers or an external SSD permanently attached to your laptop. Or you can go full USB-C if that’s your thing.
On the other hand, you always need a USB-C for charging, so having a fixed port for that does make sense. Put one on each side, even, so that the laptop can be charged from both sides. This also synergizes with Laptop 16 having only two USB4 ports - people would most likely not want to waste those ports on adapters, so make them permanent. This would be super space efficient as well.
Another thing that baffles me is the absence of headphone jack on Laptop 16. It has an audio chip on the motherboard to drive the speakers. That audio chip for sure has support for an audio jack (or there is an analogue which does for $0.01 more), but instead the only way to get wired audio is to get a USB-C dongle which adds another audio card to my computer?
So, IMO Framework’s approach is too much on one side of the spectrum where the real sweet spot is in the middle. Let me personalize ports, but give me stuff that’s easy to get/required (and doesn’t require a lot of space) as fixed.
But I’m definitely assuming a lot, so might just be uninformed.
I do not need to change my expansion cards, but I do love the idea that I could. Especially if some port for some mysterious reason was broken I love that I am able to change them without any problem and without changing the whole motherboard. So for that reason alone I live the feature. However I personally would be just as happy if there was just a 2x USB-C, HDMI, USB-A setup and you could easily change the connection “under the hood” instead of full out expasion cards to get larger / quieter cooling system (the temperature is my main issue with my laptop 13). But now expansions cards is what’s on the menu and I am very happy as it is.
I’m happy to have that flexibility.
Currently I use 4*USB-C. All my peripherals are usb-c by now. So that HDMI and usb-a port would be useless for me.
1 for power and 1 for my external boot SSD. I would not like to have to shut down first, just to hook up the external SSD into an additional hub, to be able to connect another usb-c stick.
Granted, a very specific setup. But still what I use every day at work.
I am glad to have the expansion module flexibility. There are definitely some design decisions about the size, placement, etc that FW made that could have been thought out a bit better in my opinion.
For me, it’s not just about being able to change them on a whim. I like the option, but admittedly, I don’t change them very often. But I love the ability to customize them in the first place. And there’s no way they could offer that with fixed ports. I like that I can pick a port configuration that works for me, with the ports on the sides that work best.
I know dongles are a thing, and having all USB-C ports and just carrying dongles for things would totally be an option. But I like that I don’t have to deal with dongles the vast majority of the time. If I’m travelling for work and I know I’m going to need an HDMI port and memory card reader, I can pop in those cards before I leave, and don’t have to carry anything extra in the bag.
I also love that it means the ports are replaceable if they ever break or wear out. That could also be accomplished by having separate boards for the ports internally, but that would still take up quite a bit of internal space, and you’d be tied to a specific configuration.
I totally understand where you are coming from, and I get it. But if they had two FW 13s, one with the expansion cards, and one fixed ports with a bit larger battery and slightly better speakers, I’d get the one with the expansion cards. But that’s me.
Agreed I’m mostly here for good linux support and the ability to easily repair the bigger components. I don’t need a fully modular laptop. I’d love a 13 in refresh that is a bit more stiffer/durable.
Bigger battery and speakers would be a plus, but I’d also be happy with an efficient chip with onboard memory. I’d like to reap the advantages of a more integrated design. I never upgrade memory for a given MB and by the time i get a new cpu memory type usually changes anyway.
Repairability. If port breaks (single accidental sideways yank on the cable and port may be broken), you just need to replace the 10€ piece instead of a new laptop or an expensive fix.
Customization: You’re not the only customer (I know, tough to come to grips with that): you may need HDMI, others need Display port. You may be okay with dongles, others - may not (I live out of a backpack for months at the time, I certainly don’t want to carry additional hardware). You can’t produce different chassis types for each user.
Your needs may change as well. Changing out the port is quick and easy. No need for a new chassis or stupid dongles.
I understand, but it sort of sounds like you are describing most other laptops. I get that Framework is relatively uncommon in terms of their level of Linux support. But otherwise, that’s the way most other laptops are made these days. I know Framework takes it further with repair guides, great parts support, etc. But even a Macbook can be repaired if you only care about being able to replace major components and prefer everything be integrated/soldered. If a port, motherboard, CPU, RAM, SSD, etc. fails on a non-modular machine, you can replace the entire board, which is more expensive because all that stuff is soldered on and must all be replaced at the same time. Just like you can replace the display “assembly,” on non-modular designs.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not downplaying your preference. If that’s your preference, that’s totally fine. Framework is relatively unique in what they offer at the moment, so I think it would be a shame if they moved away from it. But that’s just because modularity is my preference, lol.
Like @nadb, I rarely change the ports on my FW16 (I presently have five USB-C, plus one USB-A for old devices), but I love knowing that I can change them if I need HDMI, DisplayPort, a wired audio jack, a 2.5GBps network connection, or a full-sized SD card reader (didn’t bother with the microSD one). And that if one breaks, I can easily replace it.
I’ve been building and repairing my own desktop computers for… sheesh, four decades now (!!), and it has always bugged me that I can’t do the same with my laptop computers. Framework has finally given me a way to do so. I’ll take the flexibility of the expansion cards over any other option I’ve seen, any day of the week.
I just ordered and appreciate the full SD expansion card. I still use a DSLR and a lot of laptops are ditching full SD to include only a microsd reader. But I don’t need it all the time, it’s only on specific trips. Moreover in a few years I might upgrade to a different camera or get rid of it entirely then I’d no longer need it, so being able to remove it and put something else in is more future-proof. Same with video out, I only need that if I’m going to give a presentation somewhere so for specific destinations I could take it out in favor of something else. Dongles and USB readers work but they’re easy to forget or lose.
What Philip_Bell said!
I kept my 2016 Macbook Pro going for years and years, replacing parts myself over time. What finally did it in was the failure of the poorly-engineered USB C charging ports. Mine would have required some difficult microsoldering to replace, and while I could do the microsoldering myself, the real difficult was that I would have to spend several hours removing the mainboard, then another couple of hours doing the microsoldering (have to remove a heat shield first, etc.).
Apple fixed this in 2017 by making it so that the USB C ports could be replaced easily, so this might not be a problem for me if I had bought another Macbook or one of the new Dell models that has a fully-replaceable USB C port, but I also wanted to support Framework for their repair focus.
Also on the original topic, I am one of the few who would actually swap out my expansion cards, such as installing the Ethernet module on occasion and installing HDMI or Displayport on occasion. I have dongles, but I don’t like that they fail, usually due to the cable or plug wearing out.
ALL THAT SAID, I do recognize the OP’s position as valid, and I don’t oppose it. It might be nice to offer a bottom shell option that offers a fixed set of four USB C ports with thin internal jumper cables to the mainboard’s USB C ports, plus better speakers or better cooling as the OP requested. I don’t expect the additional space to be useful for increasing battery capacity. I don’t expect this option for the bottom housing to be available any time soon, but it could be marketed as a “Lite” model and would probably sell quite well.
It sounds like you are OK with dongles, because of the way you use your computer. I think most people are, which is why Apple moved to USB-C/TB only on their laptops for awhile.
What they found though, is that while many people are OK with only usbc and using a dongle, that also doesn’t work for a lot of other people, and particularly not for a large number of professions that you’d expect a “Pro” laptop to cater for.
Let’s imagine you are a travelling photographer. Instead of having to pack and potentially lose a dongle, you can just have an sd card port on your laptop.
There are IT folk for whom it’s very convenient to have an ethernet port built in.
For me, for my home (dongle based even!) setup, it’s convenient to have two usb-c on the left side. But if I reorganise my desk and that becomes the right hand side, I can just change my ports.
It’s also better for repairability, as others have pointed out.
But I think the core thing isn’t that you yourself will swap them around all the time. It’s more that different people can have different setups.
I like the expansion cards a lot.
Previous laptops always had a bunch of ports that I never used, and the ones that I did use would suffer from usage wear and tear and die long before the laptop was obsolete.
Also I lost count of the number of times that I went into a conference room to find an incompatible video connection and had to start messing with a converter dongle which always failed to work at that moment.
So I say keep the expansion cards, and I will suffer through the noisy fan’s, low battery life and the speakers can already be upgraded/replaced.
Mind you that if you expect high quality audio in a laptop you are always going to be disappointed, the speakers that give real high quality audio will never fit in a laptop.
If I had an idea what to put there I’d probably take out the speakers entirely. Now that logitec dongles are basically glorified bluetooth adabter there isn’t much point to internalizing one of those (and donglehider+ exists)
of course the real audiophile refuses to listen to digitally generated music at all, but those that do frown upon logitec and resort to insanely priced high end dac’s like Mola Mola Tambaqui
I was talking about mouse dongles, on my last laptop I took out the speakers to make room for a unifying receiver (slightly lower latency and a bit more reliable than bt) but now I got a newer one that use bolt which is basically just bluetooth so I can just use bluetooth.
In the framework I have not found a use for that space jet so the speakers are still there. Not an audiophile at all I just don’t use laptop speakers in general.
