I was talking about the magnetic connector on my 2014 macbook pro. Is that not called magsafe?
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Afaik magsafe is a particular form of wireless charging.
I think Apple have just re-used the name. In the past it was a physical charging connector for laptops which was magnetically attached. They stopped using it a while ago and replaced with USB C charging. The new version is just wireless charging on phones with magnetic alignment.
Really confusing for them to use exactly the same name for a completely different “connector”.
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With magsafe3, the magnetically secured wired charging connector is still alive and well too. The numbered “magsafe2” and “magsafe3” seem to refer to wired connectors and “magsafe wireless charging” seems to refer to the wireless coil-based charging.
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Taking a page from USB naming conventions. They do it complicated on purpose to laugh at us, don’t they?
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I disagree that USB-C itself is the problem. Cheaply made and poorly secured ports are a valid concern, but not the USB-C form factor itself.
Case in point: the smartphone I am typing this on is 4 years old, and the USB-C port is still rock solid. And I don’t baby it while it’s plugged in on my bed, in my car, in a bouncy tractor even. It does have a connector cover flap built into my phone case, because I’m in very dirty and dusty places on my land weekly if not daily. And if it were to break, there are aftermarket replacement parts available for a very reasonable cost to completely change it out.
Again, USB-C is not the problem. Cheap garbage, poor design, and lack of repairability is.
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couldnt agree more. for the last 2 decades there has been at least 6 different cables types nearly everyone with computers and electronics needed to maintain. I enjoy a single cable for everything. I charged my laptop with my phone charger, which is something you wouldnt normally even thing of doing because it just wasnt possible.
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I believe the majority of problems associated with USB C port breakage is stiff cables. You see these stiff “ruggedised” cables sold everywhere. I prefer the silicone cables that are flexible. Mainly because a stiff cable puts undue stress on the port when there is any movement between the device and cable. Soft, silicone, cables flex better without the cable itself trying to twist and bend the port because of its own stiffness.
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Welcome to the forum
I agree absolutely that stiff cables are a serious issue. Plus the lack of a real (flexible) strain relief. Companies have become increadibly cheap with the construction of most cables. The “strain relief” is merely for show and made out of material much too stiff to actually provide useful strain relief. Even pricey cables are guilty of this. To make matters worse, the plug end, before the cable starts, is often made much longer than it needs to be. A long stiff end creates lever, putting undue force on the port if the cable is pulled any direction but straight out, or if it’s bumped. Bumped hard enough and the leveage can destroy ports far too easily.
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Especially those fake active cables…faking to look like active ones.
ChargerLab’s cable teardown videos have been my usual go-to:
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I came across this thread from Googling around and made an account just to contribute.
TL;DR:
It’s technically not the USB-C port itself that is the problem; it’s dust/debris accumulation inside the port. I had the symptoms described by OP–and worse–on my phone, but it was completely resolved by cleaning out the port. I used a toothpick that I sharpened with a knife:
Details:
I’ve only experienced USB-C problems on my phone. There, the problems aligned very well with the descriptions in the top 2 bullet points in the OP. There was a steady progression of these symptoms. Initially, my Android Auto connection became unreliable. It would disconnect if the phone moved around during driving, or if the USB cable was moved. Then it became worse, such that when I first got into the car and plugged the cable in, often times Android Auto refused to connect, though the phone would still charge. I started to plug/unplug the cable a few times, and it would usually work after a few tries. Then I would have to put the phone down very carefully into my cup holder. Around the same time, I started getting errors even just doing standard charging with a USB-C cable at home. It started giving me pop ups that my connection was bad. Pretty sure it was this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyS9/comments/gfv7w0/i_need_help_this_keeps_showing_up_when_my_phone/
And charging was slower than normal. Eventually, both Android Auto and cable-based charging stopped working completely. The phone has wireless charging so I’ve been just charging wirelessly and put off worrying about this problem.
Finally, I decided to try cleaning the port just to make sure, though I didn’t have much hope it would work, and it worked amazingly well! It’s like night and day. It was surprising how much dust and hair-like debris I dug out of there. Now my AA works again without even a hiccup, and the mechanical feel of plugging and unplugging that same port, with the same cables, also feels completely different. I can feel how the cable plugs into the port more snugly, and it takes noticeably more pull to unplug it.
Hope this is helpful to anyone who faces this frustrating problem.
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I’ve had to do this.
First time I cleaned one, I was amazed. I really had started to fear that the retaining pin notches were worn & went bad. Virtually no click to lock-in left. But nope, the port was perfect after a full debris removal. Solid, firm click that is indistinguishable from a brand-new port.
I used the plastic from a large peanut butter jar. Cut into a thin pick with a hook at the end. The plastic was just the right thickness. Just fit. Fairly thick and stiff due to being from a large container.
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Hope you are aware of magnetic options.The USB C is protected and it’s easier to clean the adapter and cable
Example:
The point the OP is making and that I agree with is that USB C connectors cannot be reliable by their very design.
I have personally seen many USB C port failures as part of my job in IT.
For example, I had to give up my beloved 2016 Macbook Pro 13in (no Touch Bar) because one of its two USB C ports wore completely out (both ports wore to looseness). I had been limping along for many years (probably at least 5 years) with random disconnects until now one of the ports won’t connect at all.
I finally took a magnifier and looked at what had gone wrong inside the sockets, and basically, there are tiny little “ears” on the flat tab that has the pins on top and bottom that help retain the plug in the socket. Those ears wear off, and then the plug only has the two spring loaded clips that grab onto the outside of the plug’s steel shield. With two out of the four retention mechanisms gone, the plug slides easily out of the socket, and then the port exhibits frequent disconnects.
I also had to give up a beloved Anne Pro 2 keyboard because its USB C port got too loose. And I just repaired a Preonic rev. 3 keyboard by re-soldering down and adding epoxy to the sides of the USB C port.
Not to mention the many smartphones that have had USB C ports loosen up.
I can replace USB C ports that have a single (dense) row of surface mount pins but the ones with two rows (this is much more common than the single row) are too hard to remove and replace. It takes a good hot air station with a small nozzle to reflow the solder on the inner row of surface mount pins.
IMO, the EU should have mandated the Apple Lightning connector since those fail far less often than USB C ports on smartphones.
I think the proper solution for USB C port unreliability is what Apple decided to do with their 2017 Macbook Pro 13: they made the USB C ports easily replaceable by putting them on tiny little daughtercards that attach to the mainboard with little flat ribbon cables. I think Framework should do the same such that the USB C ports inside each expansion slot are themselves fully replaceable (for those people who swap out expansion cards often enough to wear out the USB C ports soldered to the motherboard).
USB-C is definitely not as resistant as simpler and / or larger connectors with fewer pins and lower data speeds. Laptops and other larger & heavy devices that easily have room for it should really a separate dedicated charging port.
There is only one pair of retention points. The cable’s male plug has a pair of spring clips that mate to the pair of hook shaped metal ears inside the female port on the device. Being a matched set, completely dependent on each other, you wouldn’t refer to it as having four retention mechanisms. Each spring clip, and each hook, only make up a half of a retention mechanism.
Given the comparison you made with the MAC ports wearing, I can not see the expansion cards being removed and inserted anywhere near the same amount as a USB-C socket.
By the way, on your alternative, mini-board look at how Fairphone have done such for many years. See there latest iteration.
However I still use a semi-permanent magnetic adapter on my phone so in four years I may have only ‘used’ the USB-C port less than 100 times and most of that was in the first year before I got the adapter.
So whereas I agree the USB-C ports do seem a little fragile I think Framework’s solution is not just fine but currently one of a kind. Really how many times are the expansion cards going to be removed and there are four of them.
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Hi.
I am probably thinking about this from a different perspective. I figure that any type of connector can get damaged. So, the best approach is just to make the connector replaceable relatively cheaply.
The alternative is to go mil spec connectors that are just too bulky for commercial market.
I don’t think apple vs usb-c makes much of a difference, from a can I brake perspective.
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That would also go for the Expansion port on the 16" and given the amount of times it seems users fiddle inside then the Input Cover with it’s keyboard and touchpad connectors are also vulnerable.
Nope, I can absolutely say you are 100% wrong. There are FOUR spring loaded clips.
The two on the outside of the shield inside the socket that press against the smooth outer steel shielding of the plug, and two INSIDE THE PLUG that grab onto the “ears” on the sides of the flat tab inside the socket.
Take a look at the PNG I created. I have added red arrows pointing to the ears that wear off the socket in the 2016 Macbook Pros. How do I know this? I took a needle and superglue and re-created the ears (I used to assemble plastic models, so this is pretty easy for me). Once the ears were re-created, the plug snapped snugly over the flat tab inside the socket, and the sockets were usable again. However, the super-glue wears off too, and the solution is only temporary, lasting a few months.
The green lines represent the steel shield of the USB C plug.
The blue lines are the spring clips INSIDE THE PLUG that I am referring to.
The purple arcs are the spring clips inside the socket that grab onto the steel shield of the plug–those are what you are referring to.
In total there are FOUR spring clips (two on the socket, two on the plug) involved.
If you don’t believe me, grab a good magnifier and look inside a USB C plug. You can see the metal clips on each side of the inside.
Also, it should be possible to verify the existence of the clips inside the plug by referring to the official USB C industry standard specification (but that document is huge, so finding the exact page could take a while).
UPDATE: I found a mechanical drawing of a male USB C plug here that clearly shows the spring clip inside the plug.
I have attached zoomed-in shots of the diagram and highlighted the inner spring clips in light blue.
Zoomed in, this is what I am referring to (blue lines in my drawing).
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You are correct–the expansion cards would almost certainly never be removed and re-inserted to the same number of cycles as the USB C port on a smartphone. On my Macbook Pro, we’re probably talking 365 days * 3 times a day * 2 years = 2190 plug/unplug cycles before the little ears wore off (they are really soft, probably FR4 fiberglass). Other 2016 and 2017 MBP owners complained that their USB C ports wore out in 2 years too.
I think the real threat to the Framework’s soldered-to-the-motherboard USB C ports is torque–if someone were to insert an expansion card incorrectly (perhaps it’s a poorly-designed expansion card without the alignment slots, or maybe the USB C plug is slightly-off-center), it could break the motherboard’s USB C port. Not likely, but it’s possible for someone designing/developing an expansion card with a 3D-printed housing.
Another possibility is if someone foolishly inserts a USB C cable directly into the USB C socket soldered to the motherboard. Trip over that cable, and voila, gotta replace the whole motherboard.
You are absolutely right that Framework’s idea of using expansion cards is a good thing–they effectively make it so that the high wear is on the outer USB C socket of a USB C expansion card, reducing the wear on the USB socket soldered to the motherboard. It is one of the more attractive features of the Framework laptop compared to, say, my beloved Macbook Pro that I had to dump only because the USB C sockets wore out.
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